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What about Coon for Hodge


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#21 KTG119

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:30 AM

if Coon wins out...and Zain wins out....and they continue at same bonus rates as now....Zain should win (by the Hodge criteria) but don't be surprised if Coon does win (because WIN does not necessarily follow their own criteria, or rather they occasionally pick and choose what criteria they want to emphasize). 


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#22 MSU158

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 03:57 AM

Bonus points be damned, if Coon stays undefeated, on his same bonus pace and ends up 3-0 against a 2X World and 1x Olympic Champ, it is very hard to not weigh that more over beating Sorenson 3x's and wrecking a relatively weak field.

 

Remember, I say that being the guy that said Snyder in no way would deserve it over Retherford, but that was due to a much shortened schedule and lack of pins or even near fall.  Coon already has 9 FALLS out of his 22 matches, so he should be solidly into double digits.

 

So, I guess it comes down to this.  Does beating Snyder all 3X's trump the extra 25% bonus rate of which 40% more are FALLS?  I don't know that it does, but it sure makes it a LOT closer and gives the voters a bunch more to think about!



#23 tec87

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:10 AM

Bonus points be damned, if Coon stays undefeated, on his same bonus pace and ends up 3-0 against a 2X World and 1x Olympic Champ, it is very hard to not weigh that more over beating Sorenson 3x's and wrecking a relatively weak field.

Remember, I say that being the guy that said Snyder in no way would deserve it over Retherford, but that was due to a much shortened schedule and lack of pins or even near fall. Coon already has 9 FALLS out of his 22 matches, so he should be solidly into double digits.

So, I guess it comes down to this. Does beating Snyder all 3X's trump the extra 25% bonus rate of which 40% more are FALLS? I don't know that it does, but it sure makes it a LOT closer and gives the voters a bunch more to think about!


Plus, while there are people who have won the hodge twice, the voters may look at Coon’s resume if he wins out and think “ZR did put up more bonus but Coon was pretty damn Good too and beat Snyder 3x’s, so while ZR does deserve this, he has one already. We gotta give it to Coon.”

It ZR didn’t win it last year and was passed by for Coon this year, then I would see a need to complain but I don’t think people are gonna say Coon isn’t worthy if he wins out and beats Snyder two more times.
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#24 TFBJR

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:53 AM

7th time. Who are you predicting in the Coon/Snyder rematch? No one thinks you are smart on here, it's ok to flub a prediction. 

Any chance you gents can take this argument elsewhere?  I don't think anyone cares.  JMO.  



#25 PhiferFuqua

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 08:54 AM

Plus, while there are people who have won the hodge twice, the voters may look at Coon’s resume if he wins out and think “ZR did put up more bonus but Coon was pretty damn Good too and beat Snyder 3x’s, so while ZR does deserve this, he has one already. We gotta give it to Coon.”

It ZR didn’t win it last year and was passed by for Coon this year, then I would see a need to complain but I don’t think people are gonna say Coon isn’t worthy if he wins out and beats Snyder two more times.


But "past credentials" is one of the criteria. Winning last year's Hodge (plus being a three-time champ and four-time All American) would work for Retherford, not against him.

#26 JerryCallo

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 09:40 AM

I am not sure it will happen, but if Coon runs the table, which would include beating the worlds best wrestler 3 times, and he does not win the Hodge - then that award becomes a joke.  I do not care who had more meaningless Tech Falls, if the award is for the Best College Wrestler of this year, Coon must win it if he runs the table. 


YOU WERE SERIOUS ABOUT THAT?


#27 PhiferFuqua

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:18 AM

I am not sure it will happen, but if Coon runs the table, which would include beating the worlds best wrestler 3 times, and he does not win the Hodge - then that award becomes a joke.  I do not care who had more meaningless Tech Falls, if the award is for the Best College Wrestler of this year, Coon must win it if he runs the table.


Try to keep up.

He's not the "world's best wrestler."

He is the world's best freestyle wrestler.

But he's not the world's best Greco-Roman wrestler.

And he's not the world's best American folkstyle wrestler.

Snyder didn't win the award last year and wouldn't have won it this year. How does not giving the award to a guy with three wins over a guy who didn't deserve the award himself make the award a joke?

#28 TBar1977

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:45 AM

Zain garnered 33 of the 45 first place votes last year, and his season this year is on the same level thus far. J'Den Cox was last year's runner up. 


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#29 tbert

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 10:55 AM

Lets just face the facts. Retheford is the best and most dominate college wrestler. He doesn't have the luxury of rolling around with a bunch of fat boys.
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#30 xander

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 01:23 PM

Snyder going to have to make it past Neville to get to coon. Correct? Neville wrestled him ok I read
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#31 MSU158

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:14 PM

Snyder going to have to make it past Neville to get to coon. Correct? Neville wrestled him ok I read


Nevills benefited quite a bit from Snyder needing to get bonus pts for the team to win and it wasn't like the match was all that close. It was just much closer than many expected.
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#32 PSUMike

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:01 AM

I wouldn't object but I don't think he has a real shot under the criteria. Zain will probably bonus everyone else he wrestles this year not named Brandon Sorensen so if he finishes with a record of 32-0 with 29 bonus point wins, that's hard to argue against. He'd also finish his career on a 96 match winning streak with a bonus point % right around 90%. That's kinda good. 



#33 TBar1977

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:06 AM

Zain is light year's ahead in NCAA Most Dominant Stat just released. 

 

https://www.ncaa.com...award-standings


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#34 NJWC

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 02:21 AM

Zain is light year's ahead in NCAA Most Dominant Stat just released.

https://www.ncaa.com...award-standings


Who has he beaten that’s exceptional? 149 is about as weak a class as I can recall. Level of comp has to play a role in the decision.
At this point, I’d vote for Coon.

#35 TBar1977

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:02 AM

Who has he beaten that’s exceptional? 149 is about as weak a class as I can recall. Level of comp has to play a role in the decision.
At this point, I’d vote for Coon.

 

 

To answer your question, those who would not choose Zain last week would have favored Snyder. But when both Zain and Snyder were in the same dual against the same level of competition Zain won over #5 Hayes by TF and Snyder won over #5 Nevills by DEC. Their next dual Zain beat #2 by 4, Snyder lost to #2. 

 

If Coon were somewhat close there would be an argument, but he isn't really very close. 


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#36 xander

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:24 AM

H lock 3 , I predict coon beats Snyder at Conference tournament. :-)

Edited by xander, 15 February 2018 - 03:25 AM.

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#37 NJWC

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:15 AM

To answer your question, those who would not choose Zain last week would have favored Snyder. But when both Zain and Snyder were in the same dual against the same level of competition Zain won over #5 Hayes by TF and Snyder won over #5 Nevills by DEC. Their next dual Zain beat #2 by 4, Snyder lost to #2.

If Coon were somewhat close there would be an argument, but he isn't really very close.


According to you. Please provide the quality wins for ZR this year. Remember, being ranked 4th in a terrible weight isn’t the same as 4th in a tough weight.
ZR has few quality wins. Coin has the biggest, by far.

Coon deserves it as of right now.

#38 TBar1977

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:19 AM

According to you. Please provide the quality wins for ZR this year. Remember, being ranked 4th in a terrible weight isn’t the same as 4th in a tough weight.
ZR has few quality wins. Coin has the biggest, by far.

Coon deserves it as of right now.


Coon does have the best win. Zain will probably win the Hodge based on dominance and falls.

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#39 PhiferFuqua

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:41 AM

Who has he beaten that’s exceptional? 149 is about as weak a class as I can recall. Level of comp has to play a role in the decision.
At this point, I’d vote for Coon.


Retherford has a gift for making his weight class look weak.

It's a big part of what makes him the best American folkstyle wrestler in college today.

Edited by PhiferFuqua, 15 February 2018 - 06:43 AM.


#40 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 06:43 AM

Coon does have the best win. Zain will probably win the Hodge based on dominance and falls.

 

The question really comes down to this. If Coon wins out beating Snyder 2 more times will the wins over Snyder be held in higher regard over Retherford's dominance over the entire 149 field...

 

Coon has to beat Snyder 2 more times for this to even come into play...






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