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What about Coon for Hodge


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#61 tec87

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:35 AM

name a weight class with more cumulative NCAA titles among current competitors, I'll wait.


3 titles at 149 and 3 titles at 165
FIRE UP CHIPS!!!!

#62 MSU158

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:47 AM

name a weight class with more cumulative NCAA titles among current competitors, I'll wait. 

Name a weight class where one of those titles is held by a guy that had to transfer after his sister and best friend died in the same year, got a bit pudgy, was fortunate to be granted a 6th year and was a backup for most of the season?

 

 

Plus, your argument sucks considering the point is the weight class is thin OTHER THAN Retherford...........


Edited by MSU158, 16 February 2018 - 03:48 AM.


#63 MSU158

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:59 AM

For comparison:

 

125:

1.Cruz-Defending Champ and took 7th as a freshman and R12 as a soph.

2.Suriano-Undefeated and an injury deprived him of a likely high AA finish.

3.Lee-Multiple World Champ and true freshman.

4.Tomasello-Former champ at 125 going 1st,3rd and 3rd so far at NCAA's.

5.Fausz-R12 last year, beat Piccininni and his only loss is to Fix 2-1.

6.Lizak-Defending Runner-up.

7.Piccininni-Defending 4th place.

8.Lamont-Freshman on par with Deakin so far.

9.Rivera-Freshman on par with Deakin so far.

10.Russell-Defending 7th place.

11.Bresser-R12 2 years ago, redshirted last year.

12.Mattin-Solid True Freshman.

13.Millhof-AA 2 years ago, redshirted last year.

 

133:  

1.Gross-Defending Runner-up.

2.Micic-Defending 4th place.

3.Pletcher-R12 undersized at 141 last year.

4.Brock-Defending 5th place.

5.Desanto-On par with Deakin so far.

6.Erneste-R16 last year.

7.Parker-Defending 8th place.

8.Bridges-Won his last 20 matches.  His losses are to DeSanto, Pletcher and Montoya.

9.Mueller-6th place last year at 125.

10.Terao-1-2 at 125 last year.

11.Forys-R16 at 133 last year.

12.McKee-R12 last year at 133.

 

141:

1.Meredith-2nd and 4th the last 2 years at 141.  Wrestled 133 as a TF for NCState before transferring to Wyoming.

2.Jack-5th,R12 and 3rd.

3.Eierman-5th as a freshman.  Has a win over a World Champ.

4.Yianni-World Champ and true freshman.

5.Zacherl-Career record of 74-8. 2x 1-2 at NCAA's.

6.Heil-4th,1st,1st,?

7.McKenna-3rd,R12 and now transferred to tOSU.

8.Lee-TF on par with Deakin so far.

9.Alber-1-2 and 2-2 at 133 the last 2 years.

10.Smith-1-2 last year as a freshman.

11.Karam-Solid freshman

12.Carr-Solid freshman

13.Red-Solid freshman

 

157:

1.Nolf-2nd,1st.  Only losses are to IMar and an injury default.

2.Kemerer-Defending 3rd place as a freshman.

3.Hidlay-Freshman currently looking much better than Deakin.

4.Lavallee-Defending runner-up.

5.Shields-1-2 as a freshman.

6.Pantaleo-6th as a soph at 149 2 years ago.  Redshirted last season.

7.Jordan-R12 and 4th at 149 the last 2 years.

8.Ream-Was 24-4 going into NCAA's and went 0-2.  Went 2-2 and 1-2 the 2 seasons prior.

9.Colgan-R12 last year.

10.Finesilver-R12 at 149 2 years ago.  Redshirted last season.

11.Berger-Defending 5th place.

12.Zilverberg-2-2 at 165 last year.

 

165:

1.IMAR-Chopped liver....

2.Marinelli-Undefeated freshman currently looking much better than Deakin.

3.Joseph-Defending Champ.

4.McFadden-6th place 2 years ago.  Redshirted last season.

5.Marstellar-Nothing needs saying.

6.Walsh-Defending 7th.

7.Lewis-World Champ.

8.Wanzek-3x Qualifer and R12 last season.

9.Massa-Defending 3rd place as a freshman.

10.White-See Ke-Shawn Hayes.

11.Wick-Freshman on par with Deakin.

12.Rogers-Defending 5th place.

 

174:

1.Valencia-Defending 3rd place as a freshman.

2.Hall-Defending Champ as a TF.

3.Lewis-4th and 6th at 165 last 2 seasons.

4.Kutler-13-1 at 157 as a freshman last year, but missed weight at EIWA's.

5.Amine-Defending 4th place as a freshman.

6.Jordan-Took 3rd twice at 165 before taking 2nd last year at 174.

7.Lujan-2-2 last year as a freshman.

8.Bernstein-R12 last year.

9.Subjeck-Beat Joseph last season ;)

10.Mejias-2-2 at 165 last season.

11.Kocer-2-2 and 1-2 last 2 seasons.

12.Lydy-Rough year as a freshman at 165 last year.

13.Smith-JuCo Champ redshirted last year for OkState.

 

184:

1.Nickal-2nd(174) and 1st last 2 seasons.

2.Martin-1st(174) and 5th last 2 seasons.

3.Renda-3rd 2 years ago.  Redshirted last season.

4.Preisch-R12 at 174 last season.

5.Abounader-Top 10 seed every year.  R12 2 years ago.  Redshirted last season.

6.Parker-R12 last season.

7.Ventz-Freshman on par with Deakin so far.

8.Zavatsky-R12 and 1-2 at NCAA's last 2 seasons.

9.Robertson-2-2 last year at 197.  Went 2-2 as a freshman at 184, didn't qualify at 174 as a soph.

10.Foster-Defending 7th place.

11.Dean-Destroyer of Worlds' little bro.

12.Gravina-Likes MMA?

 

197:The one weight as thin, or maybe thinner, than 149.

1.Moore-Defending 3rd place as a freshman.

2.Haught-1-2,6th and 4th the last 3 years.

3.Darmstadt-Likely Hodge winner and much ahead of Deakin as a freshman.

4.Miklus-Depends on which version shows up on any given day.

5.RashCutchsar-?????????????

6.Weigel-Defending 6th place.

7.Renaissance man

8.Wilcke-R12 last season.

9.Mattiace-2-2 last season.

10.Kasunic-America...F*** YEAH!!!

11.Rotert-1-2 last year.

12.Beazley-Defending 8th place.

 

285:

1.Coon-Beast moded the best "Any kind of wrestling" guy on the planet.

2.Snyder-Still the best "Any kind of wrestling" guy on the planet due to unfair size advantage.

3.Kasper-Defending 6th.

4.Nevills-Defending 5th.

5.Stoll-Defender of (S)Toll House Cookies.

6.Hemida-R12 last season.

7.Dhesi-5th place 2 years ago. Almost represented Canada in the Olympics.  Redshirted last season.

8.Butler-1-2 last season.

9.Hall-Defending 4th.

10.Hughes-Weighs 313 lbs the night before weigh-ins.

11.White-Beefed up 197.

12.Wood-Big name recruit.

13.Haines-Sanderson's trash, is Lock Haven's treasure!


Edited by MSU158, 16 February 2018 - 05:21 AM.


#64 nyum

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 04:02 AM

Name a weight class where one of those titles is held by a guy that had to transfer after his sister and best friend died in the same year, got a bit pudgy, was fortunate to be granted a 6th year and was a backup for most of the season?

 

 

Plus, your argument sucks considering the point is the weight class is thin OTHER THAN Retherford...........

 

The lack of accolades among the group is due to Retherfords presence more than anything else.  Guys are going up to/staying down to avoid him.  Joey Mckenna and Keyshawn Hayes both stated that they preferred to be at 141 because although it may be a harder weight to AA at, it would be easier to win as opposed to 149. 



#65 MSU158

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:23 AM

The lack of accolades among the group is due to Retherfords presence more than anything else.  Guys are going up to/staying down to avoid him.  Joey Mckenna and Keyshawn Hayes both stated that they preferred to be at 141 because although it may be a harder weight to AA at, it would be easier to win as opposed to 149. 

Which is LITERALLY why the weight is thin.  You just proved my point and ruined your argument.....

 

 

No one has been arguing that Retherford isn't great.  The argument is that his "dominance" isn't as amazing due to how thin the weight is and that is why it may be overlooked a bit if Coon runs the table.


Edited by MSU158, 16 February 2018 - 05:24 AM.


#66 nyum

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:49 AM

Which is LITERALLY why the weight is thin. You just proved my point and ruined your argument.....


No one has been arguing that Retherford isn't great. The argument is that his "dominance" isn't as amazing due to how thin the weight is and that is why it may be overlooked a bit if Coon runs the table.


WRONG. The weight is perceived as thin due to his dominance. Youve got guys that would prefer to throw themselves into the mix at 141 and potentially not even AA as opposed to go 7 minutes with Zain. Then you’ve got guys (Pantaleo/Jordan) that would rather bulk up then give it another go against Zain.

You can argue it’s a weak weight all day long, but it’s simply not the case. Tough guys are ducking the weight because of how difficult it is.

#67 boconnell

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:52 AM

WRONG. The weight is perceived as thin due to his dominance. Youve got guys that would prefer to throw themselves into the mix at 141 and potentially not even AA as opposed to go 7 minutes with Zain. Then you’ve got guys (Pantaleo/Jordan) that would rather bulk up then give it another go against Zain.

You can argue it’s a weak weight all day long, but it’s simply not the case. Tough guys are ducking the weight because of how difficult it is.

How can you give examples of very good wrestlers avoiding/leaving the weight class, but not realize that talent drain makes the depth weaker?  Logic doesn't allow you to understand the one and argue the other.  

 

And guys aren't avoiding the weight, they are avoiding Zain.  Zain makes 149 thin and 141 incredibly deep.  He is the boogie man.


Edited by boconnell, 16 February 2018 - 05:53 AM.


#68 TBar1977

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:55 AM

Which is LITERALLY why the weight is thin.  You just proved my point and ruined your argument.....

 

 

No one has been arguing that Retherford isn't great.  The argument is that his "dominance" isn't as amazing due to how thin the weight is and that is why it may be overlooked a bit if Coon runs the table.

 

 

What is more dominant, getting guys to run from the weight class or pinning those that stay? 


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#69 TBar1977

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 05:56 AM

How can you give examples of very good wrestlers avoiding/leaving the weight class, but not realize that talent drain makes the depth weaker?  Logic doesn't allow you to understand the one and argue the other.  

 

And guys aren't avoiding the weight, they are avoiding Zain.  Zain makes 149 thin and 141 incredibly deep.  He is the boogie man.

 

 

Zain is Keyser Soze. 


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#70 swoopdown

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 07:18 AM

Defender of Toll house cookies? - from what I've seen of Stoll he is the destroyer of Toll house cookie worlds. I wonder what happens to him after he no longer has to make weight or expend calories pushing massive blobs around mats? He'd best eat only salads if he get a sedentary job (maybe astronaut like Coon?). Big boys. If NASA wanted to send Coon and Stoll into space together they would need a bigger rocket than anything that exists. It would be fun to see them wrestle in a weightless environment though.


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#71 Plasmodium

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:01 AM

How can you give examples of very good wrestlers avoiding/leaving the weight class, but not realize that talent drain makes the depth weaker?  Logic doesn't allow you to understand the one and argue the other.  

 

And guys aren't avoiding the weight, they are avoiding Zain.  Zain makes 149 thin and 141 incredibly deep.  He is the boogie man.

None of the top 141 or 157 pounders are avoiding the Zain Train.



#72 MSU158

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:48 AM

What is more dominant, getting guys to run from the weight class or pinning those that stay? 

Not arguing against that at all.  Remember, I have been saying he deserves the Hodge over Snyder all year.  I just said his actual statistics for this season aren't, by themselves, as special due to who he is actually beating. That, is why I think it is plausible to give the Hodge to Coon if he keeps the same pace and beats Snyder at B1G's and again at NCAA's.  

 

Now, I am not even saying the Coon would clearly deserve it.  I just think it makes it a very close argument.



#73 TBar1977

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:54 AM

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Coon won it, but Zain deserves it.

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#74 NJWC

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:21 AM

I wouldn't lose any sleep if Coon won it, but Zain deserves it.


In your most biased of opinions.

#75 swoopdown

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:43 AM

And the pot calls the kettle black


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#76 TBar1977

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:45 AM

In your most biased of opinions.


Uh, yeah, that and that little thing called the criteria.

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#77 boconnell

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:59 AM

Zain is the clear Hodge winner.  I doubt anyone else comes close.  Nobody is close to as deserving.  

 

If Coon beats Snyder twice, then kudos to him and he gets to ride off into the sunset as an NCAA champ and the guy who beat Snyder.  My guess is that 10 years from now nobody can remember who won the 2018 Hodge (I have no idea who won 2008 without looking it up), but everyone will remember Coon beat Snyder.  


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#78 MSU158

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:06 AM

Zain is the clear Hodge winner.  I doubt anyone else comes close.  Nobody is close to as deserving.  

 

If Coon beats Snyder twice, then kudos to him and he gets to ride off into the sunset as an NCAA champ and the guy who beat Snyder.  My guess is that 10 years from now nobody can remember who won the 2018 Hodge (I have no idea who won 2008 without looking it up), but everyone will remember Coon beat Snyder.  

Metcalf!


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#79 Sheerstress

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:43 PM

Defender of Toll house cookies? - from what I've seen of Stoll he is the destroyer of Toll house cookie worlds. I wonder what happens to him after he no longer has to make weight or expend calories pushing massive blobs around mats? He'd best eat only salads if he get a sedentary job (maybe astronaut like Coon?). Big boys. If NASA wanted to send Coon and Stoll into space together they would need a bigger rocket than anything that exists. It would be fun to see them wrestle in a weightless environment though.


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Adam's actually working on something for that:

 

https://twitter.com/...720698379657216


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#80 TobusRex

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 10:40 PM

In your most biased of opinions.

 

Actually he's right. Zain leads in bonus points nationally. I think he scores 5.55 team points per dual. That's ridiculous and way ahead of anybody else.






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