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#1 executionery4145

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 05:21 PM

Has there ever been any off campus coaches that have been successful? Like is not a teacher on campus or anything ?

#2 cbg

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 07:22 AM

Has there ever been any off campus coaches that have been successful? Like is not a teacher on campus or anything ?

 

To my knowledge Jeff Jordan is not a faculty member at SPG



#3 Zebra

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 05:26 PM

Has there ever been any off campus coaches that have been successful? Like is not a teacher on campus or anything ?

Lots of them but most don't last a long time. If teaching is not your career life get's in the way. That's what happened to me so I transitioned to a zebra. That I could do because it did not interfere with my real job.

 

The irony is I am now in a position where financially and career wise I could dedicate the time necessary to coach but my body would never hold up. Way too many old war wounds. I'm nursing two right now.   



#4 TripNSweep

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Posted 21 February 2018 - 03:44 PM

There have been plenty.  I don't think Ferguson at St. Ed's was a teacher. The coach prior to me transferring to the high school I graduated from was a police officer.  One coach I know is a real estate guy, another runs a fitness gym, so there are plenty of coaches who aren't teachers but make the time to coach either because they want to or because they have that luxury with their job.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#5 TurdFerguson

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Posted 05 March 2018 - 08:19 AM

Lots of them but most don't last a long time. If teaching is not your career life get's in the way. That's what happened to me so I transitioned to a zebra. That I could do because it did not interfere with my real job.

 

The irony is I am now in a position where financially and career wise I could dedicate the time necessary to coach but my body would never hold up. Way too many old war wounds. I'm nursing two right now.   

 

Similar situation. Was way too much balancing a non-teaching job and coaching, so I put on the stripes. I see a lot of teams with almost as many assistants as wrestlers yet we have a serious reffing shortage. Wish more people would follow suit.



#6 HokieHWT

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 04:16 AM

Kevin Dresser at both Grundy and Christiansburg was paid by private funds by the club. Same with Weber when he took over CBurg, and a nice salary at that, better than most D1 coaches.



#7 Billyhoyle

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Posted 11 March 2018 - 02:31 PM

Kevin Dresser at both Grundy and Christiansburg was paid by private funds by the club. Same with Weber when he took over CBurg, and a nice salary at that, better than most D1 coaches.

I don’t understand a school paying that much for a HS wrestling coach. I really don’t understand the ridiculous salaries that some HS football coaches get. Other than the truly elite athletes, it doesn’t make sense to go somewhere that would prioritize athletics to that degree over academics.

#8 cbg

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:47 AM

I don’t understand a school paying that much for a HS wrestling coach. I really don’t understand the ridiculous salaries that some HS football coaches get. Other than the truly elite athletes, it doesn’t make sense to go somewhere that would prioritize athletics to that degree over academics.

 

While it may not make sense to place more emphasis on athletics than academics it happens each and every day.  It has been reported that a chemistry professor at the University of Alabama once complained about the salary of Coach Bryant.  The reply from Coach Bryant was that he had never heard or seen over 100,000 people pay to watch a chemistry exam and his players had an exam every Saturday.  



#9 Billyhoyle

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 12:10 PM

While it may not make sense to place more emphasis on athletics than academics it happens each and every day.  It has been reported that a chemistry professor at the University of Alabama once complained about the salary of Coach Bryant.  The reply from Coach Bryant was that he had never heard or seen over 100,000 people pay to watch a chemistry exam and his players had an exam every Saturday.  

I think it's safe to say the state of Alabama would be in a much better place right now with more books and fewer footballs. Furthermore, big universities generate much more money from patents/spin off companies (or donations from their alumni who start these companies) than the majority of football teams produce in revenue. With that said, I have much less of a problem with colleges emphasizing athletics than I do high schools. At least a sizable percentage of the college wrestlers/football players are aiming to continue on this trajectory professionally (wrestlers as coaches and football players in the NFL).  In high school, most of these guys won't even compete in college.  



#10 HokieHWT

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:40 AM

I don’t understand a school paying that much for a HS wrestling coach. I really don’t understand the ridiculous salaries that some HS football coaches get. Other than the truly elite athletes, it doesn’t make sense to go somewhere that would prioritize athletics to that degree over academics.

They were paid by the clubs. In Grundy it was funding by the owner of the coal mine, in Christiansburg it was supported by the Bingo hall that also acted at the wrestling facility. Hell as the strength and conditioning coach I was paid $7,000 a year, which is about double normal head coaches in the state paid by the schools.



#11 TripNSweep

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 07:53 AM

They were paid by the clubs. In Grundy it was funding by the owner of the coal mine, in Christiansburg it was supported by the Bingo hall that also acted at the wrestling facility. Hell as the strength and conditioning coach I was paid $7,000 a year, which is about double normal head coaches in the state paid by the schools.

 

I guess Virginia is different, but here booster clubs are forbidden from paying coaches.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#12 cbg

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 09:21 AM

I think it's safe to say the state of Alabama would be in a much better place right now with more books and fewer footballs. Furthermore, big universities generate much more money from patents/spin off companies (or donations from their alumni who start these companies) than the majority of football teams produce in revenue. With that said, I have much less of a problem with colleges emphasizing athletics than I do high schools. At least a sizable percentage of the college wrestlers/football players are aiming to continue on this trajectory professionally (wrestlers as coaches and football players in the NFL).  In high school, most of these guys won't even compete in college.  

 

Did you know that when a university wins a national championship in football or basketball the donations from alumni increase significantly, many times by as much as 50%?  Students applications also rise when schools win national championships in athletics.  It is human nature to be a front runner and want to be a student at a school with big time athletics.  
​Another little known fact is that the longer kids live in dorms on campus the more likely they are to donate back to the university. 

 

Stay out of the SEC as they know how to generate money and win championships.  


Edited by cbg, 13 March 2018 - 09:27 AM.


#13 Billyhoyle

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:51 AM

Did you know that when a university wins a national championship in football or basketball the donations from alumni increase significantly, many times by as much as 50%?  Students applications also rise when schools win national championships in athletics.  It is human nature to be a front runner and want to be a student at a school with big time athletics.  
​Another little known fact is that the longer kids live in dorms on campus the more likely they are to donate back to the university. 

 

Stay out of the SEC as they know how to generate money and win championships.  

And yet despite these great football results, the SEC has the worst universities of any power conference.  Vanderbilt and Texas A&M are the two notable exception, although Vandy has always had a horrible football team and A&M only recently became an SEC school.  I know these are some of the poorest and dumbest parts of the country to begin with, which impacts the quality of the university, but poor areas can still produce outstanding universities. It's just a matter of the people attending/living there/running the places being willing to invest in academics. 

 

You brought up the example of alumni donating because the football team wins..That's great and all, but your alumni will donate a lot more money if they starting tech companies instead of selling cars or owning a Chic file' franchise.

 

And like I said before though, I don't have a problem with a university investing both in academics and athletics. The SEC unfortunately only cares about athletics.  I do have a problem with high schools putting so much into athletics though....Who cares about high school sports? I will never understand an adult watching high school athletics outside of watching his own kids compete (or truly elite competition like cadet nationals/worlds where the kids are a couple years from the olympics). 



#14 Lurker

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Posted 14 March 2018 - 11:43 PM

And yet despite these great football results, the SEC has the worst universities of any power conference.  Vanderbilt and Texas A&M are the two notable exception, although Vandy has always had a horrible football team and A&M only recently became an SEC school.  I know these are some of the poorest and dumbest parts of the country to begin with, which impacts the quality of the university, but poor areas can still produce outstanding universities. It's just a matter of the people attending/living there/running the places being willing to invest in academics. 

 

You brought up the example of alumni donating because the football team wins..That's great and all, but your alumni will donate a lot more money if they starting tech companies instead of selling cars or owning a Chic file' franchise.

 

And like I said before though, I don't have a problem with a university investing both in academics and athletics. The SEC unfortunately only cares about athletics.  I do have a problem with high schools putting so much into athletics though....Who cares about high school sports? I will never understand an adult watching high school athletics outside of watching his own kids compete (or truly elite competition like cadet nationals/worlds where the kids are a couple years from the olympics). 

 

Did you just say "who cares about high school sports?"



#15 Billyhoyle

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Posted 15 March 2018 - 06:11 PM

Did you just say "who cares about high school sports?"

I mean from a general fan perspective.  I think they are extremely important for development, and the people who coach are doing great things for their students' lives.  I just don't think anybody should be paid a significant amount only to coach a single high school team (as somebody described was the case for Dresser in HS). The wrestling coach should also be the assistant baseball coach, or math teacher, or PE coach...There are towns that seem to care more about who their football coach is than their science/history teachers, and that's a problem. Why does anybody care how the local high school team does in football/wrestling/etc if they do not have kids on the team?


Edited by Billyhoyle, 15 March 2018 - 07:23 PM.

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#16 HokieHWT

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Posted 16 March 2018 - 05:55 AM

I guess Virginia is different, but here booster clubs are forbidden from paying coaches.  

Guess I hadn't  thought about that. Are there no high school coaches who run clubs in your area?



#17 TripNSweep

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Posted 17 March 2018 - 10:37 PM

Guess I hadn't  thought about that. Are there no high school coaches who run clubs in your area?

 

They do run clubs in the offseason, but there isn't a lot of money in it. Most that do run clubs do so for the benefit of their own wrestlers.  The AIA, our high school sports governing body, has a specific prohibition against booster clubs paying coaches, so that different schools or districts can't lure in better coaches with more money that other schools don't have access to.  We have an interesting network of haves and have nots.  We can't get our transfer rules to work properly either.  We used to have no transfer rules, then if you transferred but didn't move into your new school's boundaries you had to sit a year unless you could prove some kind of hardship, then we eliminated that and went with you can transfer but you have to sit out half the season before you're eligible.  So now kids transfer to powerhouse programs for all sports knowing that they might miss half the season but can still play in the playoffs and win state, etc.  So this has basically led to parents recruiting kids to come play for their school.  Of course even then that doesn't apply to everyone. One kid was a record setting quarterback at a small private school, and had been getting D1 offers, so he decided to transfer to the big school up the street, and used the hardship excuse that a family friend had been hit by a car while coming to watch him play for his previous school and now had PTSD as a result.  Since dad is a big executive for a hotel, they lawyered up and the AIA caved on making him sit for 5 games and declared him immediately eligible.  So I'm sure some schools have booster clubs that pay coaches anyway.  That same school that QB transferred to has long been accused of recruiting violations, rumors went around that the booster club paid for apartments of players to move into across the street so they could attend and be eligible without sitting a year.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#18 straitshooter

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 02:43 AM

Guess I hadn't  thought about that. Are there no high school coaches who run clubs in your area?

 

I've lived in Virginia most of my life (grew up, left for awhile, came back), and I also thought we had rules that coaches had to be an employee of the school.  Usually a teacher, sometimes an 'assistant principle', but on the school payroll.  Your description of the Dresser situation surprises me, but then I've been away from that environment for a few decades now, have no idea what the regs are.

 

Did you hear about the fiasco down in Chesapeake near the end of football season?  A guy, senior I think, played for a school that either got knocked out of the playoffs early or didn't make it at all - played in every game to the end.  He 'moves' to a new home and suddenly is on the roster at one of the Chesapeake schools, in time for the state semifinals - and he's a DI recruit, IIRC.  (Imagine a guy playing for the Yankees, they get knocked out in the first round of the playoffs - and a few weeks later one of their guys is playing for the Astros in World Series).  The VHSL let him play because they said the rules didn't explicitly forbid it, but they're looking at closing that loophole.  Needless to say, a lot of people were pretty ticked off about it.



#19 KTG119

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 04:07 AM

I wonder if Steve Martin was employed by school in a capacity other than coach when at GB. 



#20 straitshooter

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Posted 18 March 2018 - 08:48 AM

I wonder if Steve Martin was employed by school in a capacity other than coach when at GB. 

 

Not sure about Steve.  About ten years ago, the local paper did a long series about the Martins.  Wayne got the dynasty going at GB.  Don't know if he was ever a teacher, but definitely worked in administration about the time he handed off to Steve.  The series started off, of course, talking about what Billy did at Granby.  I had an Army colleague who graduated from Granby in the dad's final year, had Martin as his gym teacher.  Martin already had a legendary reputation, this guy said you did not want to be in his doghouse.  Billy and the family also built a very successful business (vinyard, I think), and a lot of wrestlers had summer jobs there.  I'd bet today that would get a close look to make sure nothing sketchy was going on.  One interesting little subtopic, the father's rise to fame and glory came well before Dan Gable's career, and as Gable's dynasty took off, this story said that the two did not care for each other - apparently very different philosophies about wrestling.  Then Billy Martin's youngest child made a point of wrestling for Gable - don't know what the old man thought of that.






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