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Is your state doing it worse than VA?


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#101 cbg

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:30 AM

Some people in California complain about the state tournament being held in Bakersfield, but I'm not one of them. All things considered, I think Bakersfield works really well. 

 

Would attendance be better in Fresno, CA which would be a little more centrally located?



#102 TripNSweep

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 06:09 AM

GCU arena looks small, but awesome. Would be a great intimate site for a very loud dual!

 

GCU had some pretty awesome duals when they were still a D2 program there.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#103 leshismore

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 01:33 PM

internet tough guys calling lifelong coaches "insecure"

Gillermoran is back.  And BTW... I know these coaches.  Nice guys, extremely insecure.


"Though I could not caution all I still might warn a few"
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#104 BobDole

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 02:13 PM

Gillermoran is back.  And BTW... I know these coaches.  Nice guys, extremely insecure.

Most states went to class wrestling in the 60's or 70's, I guess those insecure sorry excuses for men finally made their way to New York.



#105 Aztec

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 05:26 AM

Would attendance be better in Fresno, CA which would be a little more centrally located?

 

 

I don't know. Fresno is more centered geographically but Bakersfield is closer to the more populated Los Angeles metro area than is Fresno. If it was in Fresno, maybe fewer people from southern California would go the extra 110 miles to get there. But Fresno is closer to the Bay Area and Sacramento area so more of those folks would likely make the trip to Fresno. My guess is that attendance wouldn't change dramatically if that was the only change. 


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Then again, I could be wrong. 


#106 HokieHWT

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Posted 09 March 2018 - 05:59 AM

The 6 divisions in VA have broken my heart.


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#107 cbg

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:16 AM

The 6 divisions in VA have broken my heart.

 

The state athletic association in Virginia is just like the one in many states and that is they are a joke!  Now we all must remember a few things:

1.  The state associations are multi million dollar organizations that are operated by educators that have little if any business expertise.

2.  Most all of the state associations are not equally represented and are tilted to the public school side

3.  It's all about making their contemporaries happy and by having more state championships more people leave the event happy.

4.  The attendance is better with more student athletes competing for more state championships.  By increasing attendance the state association takes in more money and are able to justify paying themselves more money.

5.  It has nothing to do with what is best for the various sports.

6.  The state association executives have little if any experience in advertising and promotion

7.  All state championships in each and every sport in all states should be funded by selling advertising.  By doing this all the gate money and parking should be profit.


Edited by cbg, 12 March 2018 - 04:19 AM.


#108 AnklePicker

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:00 AM

What multiple class states fail to realize is that in states like NJ with one class or PA with two, district and region titles take on greater significance. If you’ve wrestled in NJ you know that a region title means something. In this day and age it’s pretty easy for college coaches to know the same.
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#109 gowrestle

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 12:03 AM

States like New York and Pennsylvania do not have state champs. The have divisional champions.

New Jersey has State Champions

Maybe that’s good maybe it’s not. But that’s the way it is. .

#110 BobDole

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 12:40 AM

Funny that the schools call those kids state champions, so do the state associations.



#111 TripNSweep

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 03:35 AM

The state athletic association in Virginia is just like the one in many states and that is they are a joke!  Now we all must remember a few things:

1.  The state associations are multi million dollar organizations that are operated by educators that have little if any business expertise.

2.  Most all of the state associations are not equally represented and are tilted to the public school side

3.  It's all about making their contemporaries happy and by having more state championships more people leave the event happy.

4.  The attendance is better with more student athletes competing for more state championships.  By increasing attendance the state association takes in more money and are able to justify paying themselves more money.

5.  It has nothing to do with what is best for the various sports.

6.  The state association executives have little if any experience in advertising and promotion

7.  All state championships in each and every sport in all states should be funded by selling advertising.  By doing this all the gate money and parking should be profit.

 

Our high school association is a joke.  We had 6 divisions for a while in wrestling and the only reason for that was to get parents and stuff to come watch more.  If we had only 4 like we used to and thankfully have now, less parents and family would have come to watch the state tournament.  Ours is actually a private non profit entity, so they aren't really accountable to anyone and have made stupid decisions for years and enforced rules unevenly.  Like when they gave the exclusive merchandising rights to produce tournament t shirts and stuff to a company that was owned by the son of a board member.  They also get a hefty kickback for holding our state tournament in the middle of nowhere because it's a nice arena and they have a deal worked out with the owner of it.  They have worn out their welcome with the major colleges and our NFL team so they struggle finding places to play our state championship football games.  They're just incompetent, inconsistent and will kowtow to anyone who lawyers up and opposes them.  Or even threatens them.  One of our biggest school districts threatened to leave and do their own thing oru join the smaller rival league and they bent over backwards in a hurry to keep them.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#112 Buckeyebison

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 08:39 AM

Best wrestling states would be OH, PA, NJ, CA, And IL. I’m sure the other states such as NY, MN, IA, etc would rank right up there with these top tier states.

These top tier states all has 3 or less divisions. See the pattern? Maybe all states should have 3 or less class to keep the competition more intense and allow the kids get more notice by the universities.

#113 Smithdb

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Posted 27 March 2018 - 01:50 PM

This is an argument that will never go anywhere. Should there be 1 Division or Multiple Divisions? Just like a-holes, everyone has an opinion.  These are all opinions. 

 

Being an Ohio native, I am partial to the three Division system, with private schools being integrated at the Sectional level, and Divisions being based on school enrollment.  I have never heard anyone (outside of this thread) say that an Ohio State Championship means nothing because of the 3 Division system. Is Bo Jordan's HS D2 State Championship worthless? Is David Taylor's D2 State Championship worthless? Is Kollin Moore's D3 Championship worthless?

 

Now, go on to PA, where I am at now. There are critics inside of PA for the 2 Divisions.  Many people think that 2A is weak. So, would you say that Gavin Teasedale's 2A Championship is worthless? Or Jason Nolf's 2A Championship?

 

No single model is the best, no matter how much you put down other state systems.

 

That being said, the original thread was about Virginia's 6 Class system. When you look at the number of teams in each division, you then make state tournaments comparable to an in-season tournament. The only state that would probably be able to support a 6 class system, would  be California. Even then, you still would have such a small number of teams that you water it down too much. And, as has been mentioned, it does cheapen the tournaments when they are held in a high school gymnasium. There are some good wrestlers who come out of Virginia, but their system could stand for some tweaking. 

 

The most interesting thing here is that states like OH, PA, CA, NJ, are happy with their respective systems, but it doesn't seem that anyone in the wrestling community in VA is happy with the system in place there. That is what should drive change there, not the opinions that one state or another has the "best" system.


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#114 1032004

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 12:54 AM

Funny that the schools call those kids state champions, so do the state associations.

 

I believe some states such as CT, do technically call them "Class State Champions." 

 

For example - http://gofightingsco...aspx?rp_id=3052

 

"as a senior, finished second at the Connecticut State Championships Class M at 138 lbs., reaching the finals before losing to Avery Shay of New Fairfield … that capped a 44-2 senior season … 2015 CIAC Class M state champion at 113 lbs., and was sixth in CIAC State Open Tournament … as a sophomore, was 57-7 with 44 pins, winning Class M state championships and finishing second in Connecticut State Open Championship, along with fourth in New England Championships, all at 106 lbs. … a 2014 NHSCA All-American … was third at 2013 Class M State Championships"



#115 BobDole

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Posted 28 March 2018 - 12:58 AM

I believe some states such as CT, do technically call them "Class State Champions." 

 

For example - http://gofightingsco...aspx?rp_id=3052

 

"as a senior, finished second at the Connecticut State Championships Class M at 138 lbs., reaching the finals before losing to Avery Shay of New Fairfield … that capped a 44-2 senior season … 2015 CIAC Class M state champion at 113 lbs., and was sixth in CIAC State Open Tournament … as a sophomore, was 57-7 with 44 pins, winning Class M state championships and finishing second in Connecticut State Open Championship, along with fourth in New England Championships, all at 106 lbs. … a 2014 NHSCA All-American … was third at 2013 Class M State Championships"

Ask a kid how he did at state(s) and he will say "state champion", "3rd at state", they won't mention the class/division unless you ask about it. They probably won't even mention a WEIGHT class either, amazing...should we just eliminate weight classes because they truly aren't champions of the state if they don't beat EVERYONE.



#116 GRAPLER

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Posted 05 April 2018 - 09:09 AM

It's hard to imagine that any state is doing worse than Virginia. So many comments here about the VHSL having six classifications. However, there is also the VISAA (which includes 30 private school teams)....so there are really 7 different individual state champions at each weight class.

 

The 4th place finisher in the "A" Division is not the 28th best wrestler in Virginia at his weight....because that Division is the weakest of the 7 classifications. It's likely the the 4th place finisher in the "A" Division is not in the top 100 in his weight class in Virginia. If you're 4th in the "State" Class A in the VHSL you are probably about a .500 varsity wrestler or your team only seeks out the  weakest competition all season.

 

The problem is that the people running the VHSL wish to do harm to the students, there can be no other explanation.



#117 Chrissn2001

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Posted 10 April 2018 - 11:58 AM

 

The 4th place finisher in the "A" Division is not the 28th best wrestler in Virginia at his weight....because that Division is the weakest of the 7 classifications. It's likely the the 4th place finisher in the "A" Division is not in the top 100 in his weight class in Virginia. If you're 4th in the "State" Class A in the VHSL you are probably about a .500 varsity wrestler or your team only seeks out the  weakest competition all season.

 

 

And sadly, he probably "byed" his way through regionals to get there!






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