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Seeding 197 at Big Ten

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1. Moore

2. Rasheed

3. Wilcke

4. Beazley

5. Ritter

 

Even though Moore just suffered two losses, I still think he should get top seed for overall season, although I think Rasheed beats him in the finals.  197 drops off sharply in the Big Ten after these two and possibly no other guys make the podium at Nats.  

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Overwhelming #1 criteria is records against B1G opponents, especially in duals.

 

1.Moore-8-1 in duals with only loss to Cassar.  Additional 2-0 beating Schultz of Nebraska and Ritter of Wisconsin at Cliff Keen's.   If Rasheed goes instead of Cassar, I would expect Moore to get                  the  seed with the Cassar loss no longer holding as much weight.

 

2.Rasheed-4-0 in duals.  No other B1G matches.  Shortened schedule would usually hurt, but he has a convincing win over Wilcke, so he is at least the #2.

 

3.Ritter-8-1 in duals, with only loss to Brunner.  Head to head over Beazley in duals. 3-2 against B1G in tournaments losing to Beazley and Moore.

 

4.Beazley-4-4 in duals.  However, he beat two of the guys he lost to in prior tournaments(Schultz and Ritter) and was an additional 3-0 against B1G comp. outside of duals.

 

5.Wilcke-6-3 in duals.  However, he lost the head to head to Beazley and didn't wrestle 2 of the guys Beazley lost to.  This could go the other way, but I think Beazley gets seeded above due to head                 to head.

 

6.Schultz-7-2 in duals.  Lost to Ritter and the loss to Chakonis(Northwestern) hurts. Beazley win is offset by losing to him at Cliff Keen's.  He lost to Moore there as well.

 

7. Chakonis-5-2 in duals.  Also lost to Lee(ILL) and McCutcheon in tourneys.  10-9 win over Schultz could mess this up all the way to the 3 seed.

 

8.Brunner-3-2 in duals with loss by FALL to Chakonis.  Does have head to head over Ritter and went 3-0 over B1G comp in tourneys with wins over Striggow and Warner not meaning as much since                   they aren't starting.

 

 

With all the head to head mess from 3-8, the seeding will be very interesting and pre-seeds may get jostled a bit.

Edited by MSU158

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Moore seems to be in a funk. I'd be shocked if he won B1Gs, the way he's been wrestling.

True but he has two weeks off. I think it is fair to assume that this coaches + Snyder will help him figure this out.

 

Skill wise he is clearly the best guy (besides maybe Darmstadt?) but he has to get his head and body working together like they were.

 

To put it in perspective, prior to his recent 2 losses his only college losses were to pfarr (placed 2nd and is 1-2 against him) and Cox (3 time champ and Olympic and world Bronze)

 

This has more to do with Moore not being himself than guys catching up with him. Macchiavello is good, but Moore should never lose to him. Moore at his best is elite.

 

I still think he has a good shot st going 3-1-1-1 if he avoids injuries. I know it is a bit premature to say that, but st his best it is possible

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Have heard rumors it is a weight issue.  Is this true?  If so, is it more about Moore(see what I did there?) liking to eat or is he simply not 197 any more.  I have a hard time telling with guys once they get to the upper weights because body fat just stands out more up high even if the percentage is closer than you think.  He just doesn't look like a 197lber that is starving himself.....

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My "gut" is that this is more of a situation where Moore is suffering from a case of HEW this year.  My intuition is also telling me that it will pass... but maybe not until next year.  

 

Here's my rationale for the case of the HEW:

* Solid RS Frosh season, placing 3rd, and only losing to Pfarr and Cox

* Goes to JR Worlds, faced an injury and a pretty good beating at that time, but came back to place 3rd

* Re-Enters tOSU room, and is in between MyMar (nearly Elite) and Snyder (Can't get more Elite).  

* Suffers TD after TD and beating after beating at the hands of Snyder (but wait... I'll get to it)

* Recognizes that MyMar, at a lower weight, can keep up with him, and also take him down consistently

* Net/Net:  The rigors of the tOSU room is getting in his head.  What he is failing to realize is that his own skill set has the ability to not only compete with these guys (Snyder/MyMar), but also, he is improving as well.  He's just not seeing it.  

 

Moore's skillset was on display the 2nd half of last year, and then Jr. WTT/Jr. Worlds.  He absolutely has the skill set to be Elite.  

 

I also disagree with the weight cut concept.  If it is the cut, he's probably just not doing it "right", and this is rectifiable.  Also, if it is the cut, it's also probably giving him a little more HEW, since the beatdowns are consistent, troubles making weight = loss of confidence.  

 

My prediction... two weeks off will do Mr. Moore wonders.

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Have heard rumors it is a weight issue.  Is this true?  If so, is it more about Moore(see what I did there?) liking to eat or is he simply not 197 any more.  I have a hard time telling with guys once they get to the upper weights because body fat just stands out more up high even if the percentage is closer than you think.  He just doesn't look like a 197lber that is starving himself.....

If he's having weight issues as a sophomore then his whole career is in jeopardy unless he can pack on the pounds to be a good 285

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My "gut" is that this is more of a situation where Moore is suffering from a case of HEW this year.  My intuition is also telling me that it will pass... but maybe not until next year.  

 

Here's my rationale for the case of the HEW:

* Solid RS Frosh season, placing 3rd, and only losing to Pfarr and Cox

* Goes to JR Worlds, faced an injury and a pretty good beating at that time, but came back to place 3rd

* Re-Enters tOSU room, and is in between MyMar (nearly Elite) and Snyder (Can't get more Elite).  

* Suffers TD after TD and beating after beating at the hands of Snyder (but wait... I'll get to it)

* Recognizes that MyMar, at a lower weight, can keep up with him, and also take him down consistently

* Net/Net:  The rigors of the tOSU room is getting in his head.  What he is failing to realize is that his own skill set has the ability to not only compete with these guys (Snyder/MyMar), but also, he is improving as well.  He's just not seeing it.  

 

Moore's skillset was on display the 2nd half of last year, and then Jr. WTT/Jr. Worlds.  He absolutely has the skill set to be Elite.  

 

I also disagree with the weight cut concept.  If it is the cut, he's probably just not doing it "right", and this is rectifiable.  Also, if it is the cut, it's also probably giving him a little more HEW, since the beatdowns are consistent, troubles making weight = loss of confidence.  

 

My prediction... two weeks off will do Mr. Moore wonders.

This is some detailed information your gut is telling you.

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True but he has two weeks off. I think it is fair to assume that this coaches + Snyder will help him figure this out.

 

Skill wise he is clearly the best guy (besides maybe Darmstadt?) but he has to get his head and body working together like they were.

 

To put it in perspective, prior to his recent 2 losses his only college losses were to pfarr (placed 2nd and is 1-2 against him) and Cox (3 time champ and Olympic and world Bronze)

 

This has more to do with Moore not being himself than guys catching up with him. Macchiavello is good, but Moore should never lose to him. Moore at his best is elite.

 

I still think he has a good shot st going 3-1-1-1 if he avoids injuries. I know it is a bit premature to say that, but st his best it is possible

Moore had a less than dominant Cliff Keen Vegas. I would say there is chance the writing has been on the wall he had come back to the pack a bit. Skill wise the best guy doesn't typically lose to the back-up of another conference school. Typically that would be rated 3rd best, skill wise. But hey, I believe my lying eyes and you believe your biased judgment so you're probably right.

 

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My "gut" is that this is more of a situation where Moore is suffering from a case of HEW this year.  My intuition is also telling me that it will pass... but maybe not until next year.  

 

Here's my rationale for the case of the HEW:

* Solid RS Frosh season, placing 3rd, and only losing to Pfarr and Cox

* Goes to JR Worlds, faced an injury and a pretty good beating at that time, but came back to place 3rd

* Re-Enters tOSU room, and is in between MyMar (nearly Elite) and Snyder (Can't get more Elite).  

* Suffers TD after TD and beating after beating at the hands of Snyder (but wait... I'll get to it)

* Recognizes that MyMar, at a lower weight, can keep up with him, and also take him down consistently

* Net/Net:  The rigors of the tOSU room is getting in his head.  What he is failing to realize is that his own skill set has the ability to not only compete with these guys (Snyder/MyMar), but also, he is improving as well.  He's just not seeing it.  

 

Moore's skillset was on display the 2nd half of last year, and then Jr. WTT/Jr. Worlds.  He absolutely has the skill set to be Elite.  

 

I also disagree with the weight cut concept.  If it is the cut, he's probably just not doing it "right", and this is rectifiable.  Also, if it is the cut, it's also probably giving him a little more HEW, since the beatdowns are consistent, troubles making weight = loss of confidence.  

 

My prediction... two weeks off will do Mr. Moore wonders.

I think Moore still rates a number one seed, but just barely.  I have to disagree with the logic you use here.  If Moore's wrestling is really being that adversely impacted by his training partners in the room, then either the Ohio coaches aren't doing their job and/or Moore just doesn't deserve the number one ranking.  Any way you cut it, Moore's overall performance this year has been underwhelming and he better get it together real quick.

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Moore had a less than dominant Cliff Keen Vegas. I would say there is chance the writing has been on the wall he had come back to the pack a bit. Skill wise the best guy doesn't typically lose to the back-up of another conference school. Typically that would be rated 3rd best, skill wise. But hey, I believe my lying eyes and you believe your biased judgment so you're probably right.

 

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I like you how used "typically" and "back-up" in the same sentence to make losing to Cassar way worse than it actually was.  There is nothing typical about Cassar that would make him a back-up......

Edited by MSU158

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I like you how used "typically" and "back-up" in the same sentence to make losing to Cassar way worse than it actually was.  There is nothing typical about Cassar that would make him a back-up......

 

Just a 1x state champ outta high school.... Like lots of other back ups dontcha  think?

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Moore had a less than dominant Cliff Keen Vegas. I would say there is chance the writing has been on the wall he had come back to the pack a bit. Skill wise the best guy doesn't typically lose to the back-up of another conference school. Typically that would be rated 3rd best, skill wise. But hey, I believe my lying eyes and you believe your biased judgment so you're probably right.

 

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Are you claiming if someone beats someone else that automatically means the winner has more skill? You don’t understand the distinction?

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Are you claiming if someone beats someone else that automatically means the winner has more skill? You don’t understand the distinction?

You may be on to something. Am I giving too much credit to the guys who have beat a very talented Moore or kept it close this year. My bad.

On the other hand, I'm not ready to put Moore in the separated from the pack category.

 

 

 

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I think Moore still rates a number one seed, but just barely.  I have to disagree with the logic you use here.  If Moore's wrestling is really being that adversely impacted by his training partners in the room, then either the Ohio coaches aren't doing their job and/or Moore just doesn't deserve the number one ranking.  Any way you cut it, Moore's overall performance this year has been underwhelming and he better get it together real quick.

 

That's cool.  I don't think he deserves the #1 seed.  Earn it back Mr. Moore.  I don't think it's the coaches per se... I think it's all in his dome.  Meaning... no matter how much coaching you're receiving, if you don't believe in yourself first, then you'll never succeed.  At the beginning of the season, there was an interview with Kollin.  It was very telling, as he was self-deprecating and speaking at how awesome the room is, and how tired of being whipped by Snyder he was getting.  I think it was right around CKLV timeframe.  Anyway... if there's a mindset of doubt, then that's the catalyst.  

 

HOWEVER... does Kollin have the skill set to win 197?  Yup . Does he have the skillset to do it with dominance?  Yup.

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That's cool.  I don't think he deserves the #1 seed.  Earn it back Mr. Moore.  I don't think it's the coaches per se... I think it's all in his dome.  Meaning... no matter how much coaching you're receiving, if you don't believe in yourself first, then you'll never succeed.  At the beginning of the season, there was an interview with Kollin.  It was very telling, as he was self-deprecating and speaking at how awesome the room is, and how tired of being whipped by Snyder he was getting.  I think it was right around CKLV timeframe.  Anyway... if there's a mindset of doubt, then that's the catalyst.  

 

HOWEVER... does Kollin have the skill set to win 197?  Yup . Does he have the skillset to do it with dominance?  Yup.

 

 

Gotta disagree with this stmt. Moore has tons of non bonus point wins on his resume to believe this. He is not even the most dominant at this weight according to ncaa stats. That would have to be either Darmstadt or Rasheed given their pins.

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Mr. Rasheed is tournament tested...tOSU has lost most head to head bouts against ranked wrestlers in duals which don't make for tournament magic...The EIWA always has a few ringers but Mr. Darmstadt is not one IMHO...Mr. Moore can be seeded #1 Mr. Rasheed will bring it!!!

 

P.S. The PSU "Train"

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Mr. Rasheed is tournament tested...tOSU has lost most head to head bouts against ranked wrestlers in duals which don't make for tournament magic...The EIWA always has a few ringers but Mr. Darmstadt is not one IMHO...Mr. Moore can be seeded #1 Mr. Rasheed will bring it!!!

 

P.S. The PSU "Train"

 

Tournament tested... are you sure you've got the right guy?  Last I checked Rasheed had never wrestled a post-season match.  

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