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superbowlhomeboy

I really enjoyed the Big Ten tournament era...

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Easy solution.  MFF should count as a loss in a tournament for the first match.  Why do we punish guys who try to wrestle and inj def, but reward guys who wimp out and forfeit?  At least that would give some punishment.  That said, there is no foolproof way to manage this.  Too many variables.

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Here is one thing the NCAA Wrestling Committee needs to do.

 

If a wrestler who AQ'd for a league medically forfeits out of a conference tourney, that AQ should be also be forfeited. It doesn't mean the league won't earn an at-large. But it also means the league isn't automatically GIFTED an AQ, when a wrestler from another league may be more deserving.

This is insane. For example, Nolf places sixth, but forfeits a few matches. The B1G earned 8 at the weight. Are you suggesting they get dropped down to 7? Sorry Van Brill, Nolf forfeited so you’re out. Kemerer also forfeited to 6th. Is Short out now as well?

 

Or are you advocating leaving someone home who earned a spot? Nolf places 6th but isn’t an automatic qualifier while those who placed behind him are? Also nuts.

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EXACTLY!! Your not punishing the injury default guys more than you are the higher seed guys giving them tough quarters. The TBar example is fools gold. As a Penn State fan of course you’d sacrifice Nolf having to wrestle Micah if that precedent gets you to have Suriano face Tomasello in the quarters! You take that all day long.

Yup. For guys like Nolf and even Suriano who have plans of winning the whole thing, they’re not really going to care (and those two seem to have legit reasons for MFF’ing anyway). But drop a guy like Deakin and make him wrestle Zain sooner and it could prevent this from becoming more widespread.

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Well, the national committee could make it criteria that you cannot be seeded above someone who finished ahead of you at your conference.  You'd have seen more guys opt away from the Med Forfeit route this weekend.

 

That said, thought it was still a great meet with some fantastic bouts.

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Well, the national committee could make it criteria that you cannot be seeded above someone who finished ahead of you at your conference. You'd have seen more guys opt away from the Med Forfeit route this weekend.

 

That said, thought it was still a great meet with some fantastic bouts.

The whole problem with that though is it still punishes the higher seeded guys who now have to face a tougher guy sooner in the tournament. If you dont want guys to med fft out, then make it so med ffting out gives up the qualifier spot.

 

If you have a bad day at the Olympic Team Trials you don't get the spot.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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What is getting lost in all this is the question if the wrestler is 100% or not at the NCAAs? Did Suriano's condition warrant his seed last year? His yearly body of work did, but once you saw him limp onto the mat it should have been a no brainer not to give him the high seed. What about Nolf? He looked good to me this weekend but they felt the need to cautiously protect/prevent him from further injury. So realistically can we say he's about 75% of his normal self then seed a 75% Nolf? Ditto Suriano?

 

If Nolf at 75% is unlikely to beat say Pantelo, then why should they seed him ahead of Pantelo based on his current 75% condition? If you want to factor in 2 weeks more of recovery then just consider say a 85% Nolf etc.....

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What is getting lost in all this is the question if the wrestler is 100% or not at the NCAAs? Did Suriano's condition warrant his seed last year? His yearly body of work did, but once you saw him limp onto the mat it should have been a no brainer not to give him the high seed. What about Nolf? He looked good to me this weekend but they felt the need to cautiously protect/prevent him from further injury. So realistically can we say he's about 75% of his normal self then seed a 75% Nolf? Ditto Suriano?

 

If Nolf at 75% is unlikely to beat say Pantelo, then why should they seed him ahead of Pantelo based on his current 75% condition? If you want to factor in 2 weeks more of recovery then just consider say a 85% Nolf etc.....

Your take would seem to support the idea that at nationals a wrestler cannot be seeded above a man who outplaced him at conference.

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Your take would seem to support the idea that at nationals a wrestler cannot be seeded above a man who outplaced him at conference.

That's an idiotic idea. What would you have seeded Bo Nickal last year?

 

The best way to do it is to count a MFF in a conference tourney as a loss got seeding criteria. This way you don't punish for MFF earlier in the year but account for the fact that a wrestler may be injured at the end

Edited by Billyhoyle

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What is getting lost in all this is the question if the wrestler is 100% or not at the NCAAs? Did Suriano's condition warrant his seed last year? His yearly body of work did, but once you saw him limp onto the mat it should have been a no brainer not to give him the high seed. What about Nolf? He looked good to me this weekend but they felt the need to cautiously protect/prevent him from further injury. So realistically can we say he's about 75% of his normal self then seed a 75% Nolf? Ditto Suriano?

 

If Nolf at 75% is unlikely to beat say Pantelo, then why should they seed him ahead of Pantelo based on his current 75% condition? If you want to factor in 2 weeks more of recovery then just consider say a 85% Nolf etc.....

And if he's at 100% but seed him at 85% you screw over the guy that's appropriately seeded.

I think NCAAs should have been redrawn at 125. Move the guys seeded 4-16 up one spot.

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That's an idiotic idea. What would you have seeded Bo Nickal last year?

The best way to do it is to count a MFF in a conference tourney as a loss got seeding criteria.

Counting the MFF in a conference tourney as a loss essentially does the same thing as what was suggested.

 

If you want to stop MFF make it so MFF and injury default eliminates you from qualifying. Treat the conference tourneys and the NCAA tournament as one continuous tournamnet.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Counting the MFF in a conference tourney as a loss essentially does the same thing what was suggested.

 

If you want to stop MFF make it so MFF and injury default eliminates you from qualifying.

Right. But you can lose to someone/place below them at the conference tourney and still deserve a higher seed.

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Right. But you can lose to someone/place below them at the conference tourney and still deserve a higher seed.

Thays because the seeding process isn't completely objective which is a can of worms I don't want to get into.

 

My point is to eliminate the whole MFF out of conference tournaments.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Thays because the seeding process isn't completely objective which is a can of worms I don't want to get into.

 

My point is to eliminate the whole MFF out of conference tournaments.

You never will because the seeds of Nolf, Ken, And Suriano are less important to their coaches than making sure they are healthy two weeks from now.

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You never will because the seeds of Nolf, Ken, And Suriano are less important to their coaches than making sure they are healthy two weeks from now.

I agree 100%.

The seeds don't matter to most guys that will MFF out. Heck putting Nolf or Suriano into a pig tail actually HELPS their team. It give them an extra opportunity to earn bonus points.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Crybabies.  In almost all other sports players who sit injured can come back in playoff games.  You fools think these medical forfeits are fraudulent?  You are idiots.  Why should someone who completes an entire season be punished because he's injured?  There's no gain for it.  At best they get seeded where the would have anyway, or more than likely dropped.  And don't forget armchair wrestlers, you have to beat the man to be champion.  Where you start doesn't matter.

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My main thought on all this is that qualifying tournaments should matter .... a lot.  It's a bad thing if we simply write off results at these tournaments and say no big deal.  It is better for the sport for everyone to take them seriously ... that they matter.  It makes the event way more exciting for us fans.  And yes, that matters.  

 

In this spirit, perhaps a MFF at a qualifying tournament should count as a real loss for seeding.  Or You can't be seeded more than 2 places higher than your placement at the qualifying tournament ........... throwing out some ideas.

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Crybabies. In almost all other sports players who sit injured can come back in playoff games. You fools think these medical forfeits are fraudulent? You are idiots. Why should someone who completes an entire season be punished because he's injured? There's no gain for it. At best they get seeded where the would have anyway, or more than likely dropped. And don't forget armchair wrestlers, you have to beat the man to be champion. Where you start doesn't matter.

If you're not healthy enough to wrestle in the qualifying tournament it's unlikely that you will be 11 days later.

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This is insane. For example, Nolf places sixth, but forfeits a few matches. The B1G earned 8 at the weight. Are you suggesting they get dropped down to 7? Sorry Van Brill, Nolf forfeited so you’re out. Kemerer also forfeited to 6th. Is Short out now as well?

 

Or are you advocating leaving someone home who earned a spot? Nolf places 6th but isn’t an automatic qualifier while those who placed behind him are? Also nuts.

 

Nowhere did I advocate leaving someone home.  I simply said you lose an AQ.  You're still eligible for an AT-LARGE.   With that, you do have a point with your particular example.  So there would be a caveat.  If you MFF to a spot in your league tourney that isn't below the number of AQs for your conference, you don't lose the AQ.

 

I'm referring to those instances where a wrestler MFF's to a spot BELOW the number of AQs for the league at that weight class.  For example, let's say Kemerer and Short both MFF'ed to tie for last place.   Should the 7th and 8th place finishers still get the AQs, simply because they were fortunate enough to have two of the better wrestlers default out?   I don't believe they should.  Once again, it doesn't mean they don't earn an AT-LARGE.  They just have to be deemed good enough not to take away a bid that would have otherwise been awarded to a wrestler from another league that would have been deemed better. 

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Crybabies.  In almost all other sports players who sit injured can come back in playoff games.  You fools think these medical forfeits are fraudulent?  You are idiots.  Why should someone who completes an entire season be punished because he's injured?  There's no gain for it.  At best they get seeded where the would have anyway, or more than likely dropped.  And don't forget armchair wrestlers, you have to beat the man to be champion.  Where you start doesn't matter.

This is the Big Tens, not a local high school tourney. As “bad” as we think some of the teams and wrestlers are, they are still better than 90% of the other college aged wrestlers out there. If you are well enough to get cleared, compete, beat people convincingly, and advance to the semis without sustaining a new injury, you are most likely well enough to wrestle your semis and finals match.

 

I have less of a problem with what Suriano did last year as he did not compete at all. Same with Schlatter back in the day. But these guys winning and then defaulting out? That has got to go.

 

To me, it is the college equivalent of kids injury defaulting in the championship rounds of high school state qualifying tournaments because they have an easier chance to advance through a specific route in the consis. Yes, as strange as it sounds, this is something that happens. 

Edited by superbowlhomeboy

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Crybabies. In almost all other sports players who sit injured can come back in playoff games. You fools think these medical forfeits are fraudulent? You are idiots. Why should someone who completes an entire season be punished because he's injured? There's no gain for it. At best they get seeded where the would have anyway, or more than likely dropped. And don't forget armchair wrestlers, you have to beat the man to be champion. Where you start doesn't matter.

That’s not a relevant comparison since the Big 10 Tournament is a postseason event, not the regular season. This would be like UVa playing one game then forfeiting out of the ACC basketball tournament as the #1 seed because they know they’re getting into the NCAA tournament anyway and don’t want to risk a loss to UNC, Duke, etc.

Edited by 1032004

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