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GuillermoBilletas

Eastern Michigan

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Who needs a 141? Sa'Derian Perry exploded onto the scene at NCAA's and is only a sophomore. Kid still has tons of potential. 

Tanner Smith also a nice get for someone.  19-0 in redshirt year.  Wins over Zovistoski and Jamal Morris.

Edited by LemonPie

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Let this be a lesson to those who harp here about how exciting women's wrestling is and how we need to support their effort to build the sport. Fu@& that nonsense; Title IX has killed way to many men's programs and decimated our sport - I won't give a dime or minute because they won't do anything for our sport.

 

And now that men are getting wiped out in the college enrollment, do you think the Title IX folks are going to turnabout & reverse course?

Not a chance in bell lemmings....

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2017/08/why-men-are-the-new-college-minority/536103/

 

"because they won't do anything for our sport."  Weird logic.  Tapping into a previously ignored participant and fan base can't possibly have any positive effects?

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My family has established a wrestling endowment at a university I coached at.  Having learned from the Notre Dame situation, the by-laws of the endowment state that the funds cannot be used for any sport but wrestling, and in the event wrestling were ever to be dropped the endowment will be used to fund the college library.

 

Coach, did the school fight you on the restrictions?  They always want money no strings attached, but who doesn't?  As Notre Dame proved, they have high-priced legal counsel that can find ways around such restrictions.  I put this on an earlier thread somewhere, my old school cancelled the program, then said, OK, you have four years to raise $500,000.  Within weeks of the fourth installments coming in, they killed the program and said they'd keep the money.  Can't prove it, but I always thought they ran a bait-and-switch, cynically figured these caveman wrestlers wouldn't know what hit them.  Probably their biggest mistake, they should have let the program have one more season, then claim they used up all the money.  As it was, their attitude got ugly when they had to write a lot of refund checks.

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Coach, did the school fight you on the restrictions?  They always want money no strings attached, but who doesn't?  As Notre Dame proved, they have high-priced legal counsel that can find ways around such restrictions.  I put this on an earlier thread somewhere, my old school cancelled the program, then said, OK, you have four years to raise $500,000.  Within weeks of the fourth installments coming in, they killed the program and said they'd keep the money.  Can't prove it, but I always thought they ran a bait-and-switch, cynically figured these caveman wrestlers wouldn't know what hit them.  Probably their biggest mistake, they should have let the program have one more season, then claim they used up all the money.  As it was, their attitude got ugly when they had to write a lot of refund checks.

I sat down with officials from the school's development office and carefully went through what my intentions were and clearly stated that in no way could this money ever be used for any sport other than wrestling.  My understanding is that with Notre Dame, the man who started the endowment passed away and ND officials soon starting working on his kids to change the framework of the endowment so they could funnel the cash over to a female sport to help them with Title IX compliance.  Very devious.  Supposedly the kids didn't know any better and went along with what the ND "experts" were telling them had to be done with the money to best serve old alma mater.  Cannot support Notre Dame in anything since this happened and rejoice when their football team loses.

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I can't be quite as anti-Notre Dame, growing up Catholic and all that, but even among the faithful, their methods and arrogance rub people the wrong way.  That underhanded behavior seems pretty common in higher education, though.  I wonder sometimes, in the future I can see people not giving money directly to colleges (or any other causes) at all, particularly the truly wealthy.  I'll set up my own endowment, keep control of the principle and send you a check once a year if I'm good with your operations.  Seems like a better way to hold people accountable, although tax laws and such might make this impractical.

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With the financial issues previous AD Heather Lyke left Eastern Michigan with, you wonder why Pitt hired her and how their athletic department will look when she is done there. I guess if you raise donations by 50% you can raise spending 200% and not worry about it when you are not going to be there when the bills come due or the ramifications of your decisions need to be paid.

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Well, this all sounds terrible. Maybe people can get together and save the program, but after what happened at Boise St. I doubt that it'll happen. My hope is that maybe some other schools like Fresno, or Little Rock will create wrestling programs.

Lastly, I think we should also push for both Men's and Women's programs at these universities. I think by doing that we can satisfy Title 9 requirements. And with more Women wrestling it should eventually pay off internationally.

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"because they won't do anything for our sport." Weird logic. Tapping into a previously ignored participant and fan base can't possibly have any positive effects?

Little fan base, and if sucks in far more resources than the benefit received. Mind you this is not a “women can’t wrestle” view, it’s a recognizing that in the long run it will suck resources away from far better athletes and a better product. I can enjoy the arts, but even I realize watching gifted and graceful ballerinas is far superior to clumsy male dancers...the same, but opposite, goes for wrestling.

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Having a women's equivalent doesn't mean much. Eastern Michigan's men's swimming and diving is also being cut despite having an equivalent men's program, winning 3 out of the last 4 MAC titles and 34 total.

 

Well, this all sounds terrible. Maybe people can get together and save the program, but after what happened at Boise St. I doubt that it'll happen. My hope is that maybe some other schools like Fresno, or Little Rock will create wrestling programs.

Lastly, I think we should also push for both Men's and Women's programs at these universities. I think by doing that we can satisfy Title 9 requirements. And with more Women wrestling it should eventually pay off internationally.

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Coach_J --- I don't know what school you endowed, but I wonder if your protection of the endowment is enough?

 

Let's say you donated $4M, and a new AD and football coach comes in.  Coach says to AD, we need another $4M for a new weight-room. AD says "OK, hey let's drop the wrestling program, I don't like wrestling". FBCoach agrees but assistant comes up and says, sorry if the wrestling team goes away, money goes away. well it turns out an academics fan alumnus (ABC jr) is about to donate $8M with the expectation a new wing will be added to the library, and named after his father(ABC sr). Well the AD is a resourceful crook. So he talks to the development office. Half of the library money goes to the new FB weight room, half to the library, and the $4M from wrestling goes to the Library. At best the new library wing will be co-named  for ABCsr and Coach_Jsr.

 

So you need the endowment to entirely leave the university if confiscated.

 

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Leave us face it, this EMU action has little to do with T9 and more with dropping 90 athletes. Maybe if T9 had zero concern men's swimming would have been not dropped another womens sport would (I thought at first Womens Gymnastics--but I realized some of those girls were likely Larry Nassar patients, so that would not fly.

 

In any case, in Michigan you have a really mismanaged state government, and a famous "educator" who is at war with public education anywhere from KG to PhD.

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Coach_J --- I don't know what school you endowed, but I wonder if your protection of the endowment is enough?

 

Let's say you donated $4M, and a new AD and football coach comes in.  Coach says to AD, we need another $4M for a new weight-room. AD says "OK, hey let's drop the wrestling program, I don't like wrestling". FBCoach agrees but assistant comes up and says, sorry if the wrestling team goes away, money goes away. well it turns out an academics fan alumnus (ABC jr) is about to donate $8M with the expectation a new wing will be added to the library, and named after his father(ABC sr). Well the AD is a resourceful crook. So he talks to the development office. Half of the library money goes to the new FB weight room, half to the library, and the $4M from wrestling goes to the Library. At best the new library wing will be co-named  for ABCsr and Coach_Jsr.

 

So you need the endowment to entirely leave the university if confiscated.

 

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I will ensure that my children and grandchildren initiate a lawsuit pronto that goes for the jugular in the event that happens.  What's done is done--the money has been donated and thus far it has done what it was intended to do.  Every year I meet with the kid who receives the money and it's been a rewarding experience.

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This was the letter I send to the EMU AD:

 

I was the assistant wrestling coach at EMU from 1998 until 2000, and it was the most corrupt athletic department I’ve ever witnessed.  I saw funds embezzled and NCAA rules broken with impunity as the EMU athletic “leadership” turned a blind eye (yes, the same people who lied about football attendance figures to maintain NCAA Division I-A status).  I attended meetings in which these putrid individuals joked about Dean Rockwell dying sooner so they could get his money to start an endowment for the wrestling team.  Personally, I was rewarded for my loyalty to the young men on the team and being the only member of the program to actually follow rules and act with integrity by being forced out of my job.  In short, I thought I saw the worst of EMU and naively believed the school could go no lower.

 

Now I learn of the decision to drop the program altogether, ironically after a season in which they crowned a rare NCAA Division I All-American (I coached EMU’s last D-I All-American, Mike Feeney).  What happened to Mr. Rockwell’s endowment?  Is it being moved from wrestling?  That was not Mr. Rockwell’s wish and anyone who knew Dean is well aware of this.  Why not drop sports that cost far more money to run and maintain that have not crowned an All-American? 

 

Coach Bolyard and the hard-working men of the wrestling team deserve far better than this horrid decision to unalterably devastate their lives.  The EMU athletic department should be ashamed.

 

This was his response:

 

I appreciate you reaching out and I am sorry I didn't get to your email yesterday.  I want you to know that I am ashamed that it has come to this.  Unfortunately, if I felt there was a way to save the programs in the first place we would have certainly done that.  We had 21 sports and a budget not sustainable for that many, and then the university notified us that we needed to cut even more ($2 million).  It would takes $10's of millions to save all 4 programs over the long haul.  We could probably rally and save softball and tennis for a year but not raise enough to save all of them and maintain that for years to come.  I hate this more than anyone, I don't like taking away opportunities for these great athletes and these coaches.  I believe this was unavoidable.

Coach Bolyard and his wife Amanda are friends and incredible people.  I do not take lightly what has happen to them, David doesn't deserve this, he has been a model coach and someone I am proud to work along side.  We have to make extremely difficult decisions all across campus and it effects many lives. 

 

Notice that he does not answer my questions about the endowments designated for wrestling.  I give him credit for answering, but his reply falls far short of providing a complete answer.

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Yeah, I don't see this as much a title IX issue as much as it's a money issue. Girls wrestling isn't going to help that and to be honest, any other program.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Again, why does football not have to make sacrifices as well? Reduce scholarships, reduce staff... I'm not suggesting the university eliminate the program as a whole, but assuming they offer 85 scholarships for football and they cut back to 60, the athletic department saves anywhere from $569,050 to $949,350 (in-state resident vs. out-of-state). Does the university really need 19 coaches for one sport? What does that payroll look like without incentives/bonuses?

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Again, why does football not have to make sacrifices as well? Reduce scholarships, reduce staff... I'm not suggesting the university eliminate the program as a whole, but assuming they offer 85 scholarships for football and they cut back to 60, the athletic department saves anywhere from $569,050 to $949,350 (in-state resident vs. out-of-state). Does the university really need 19 coaches for one sport? What does that payroll look like without incentives/bonuses?

 

But isn't part of EMU's problem that their football team stinks?   Reduce scholarships and staff probably while staying in the FBS (do they still call it that?) isn't going to make matters any better.

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Again, why does football not have to make sacrifices as well? Reduce scholarships, reduce staff... I'm not suggesting the university eliminate the program as a whole, but assuming they offer 85 scholarships for football and they cut back to 60, the athletic department saves anywhere from $569,050 to $949,350 (in-state resident vs. out-of-state). Does the university really need 19 coaches for one sport? What does that payroll look like without incentives/bonuses?

FBS football teams can't cut their scholarships.

 

They would have to move to FCS in order to do this, which means leaving the MAC. So they would have to leave their association with WMU and CMU do accomplish this.

 

It is the correct decision but not one that anyone in a leadership position is willing to make. The President and Board of Regents specifically gave the directive to reduce the funding without leaving the MAC or FBS.

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Thank you both for saying that. I don't follow college football, so I am not aware of how all of that works.

 

That said, what does an association with the FBS offer a school like EMU?

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No revenue plus no fan base equals good bye wrestling.

 

 

It probably is as simple as that when you are under the gun to cut your budget by a large amount.   If cutting a sport won't reduce the applications to your school, (especially the ones from full tuition payers), the school is always going to have that sport in its sights.   So goodbye swimming, and two others as well. 

 

The revenue part of it comes into play slightly, but not that much, imo.  Other than football and basketball, what sports at any school produce any revenue? 

 

The fan base issue is interesting though.  I do think that the decades long drop off in dual meets in favor of tournaments and quads helps the student body to ignore the wrestling teams.  Maybe that doesn't matter.  Just another factor in a long list. 

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Thank you both for saying that. I don't follow college football, so I am not aware of how all of that works.

 

That said, what does an association with the FBS offer a school like EMU?

 

2,000,000 a year in tv money

 

a smaller and local geographic footprint of travel for all sports teams

 

9 of 12 schools are in Ohio or Michigan with Buffalo, Ball State and Northern Illinois as the outliers

 

Championships in 11 mens and 12 womens sports

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Why is funding being cut for EMU? Was this due to a drop in enrollment or something dictated by the state? This seems less about the AD to me and more about whatever caused him to lose millions in funding.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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2,000,000 a year in tv money

 

a smaller and local geographic footprint of travel for all sports teams

 

9 of 12 schools are in Ohio or Michigan with Buffalo, Ball State and Northern Illinois as the outliers

 

Championships in 11 mens and 12 womens sports

 

Thank you, KSchlosser. I am hazy on a few of the specifics you've mentioned.

 

EMU and all of the other 129 FBS colleges and universities annually receive $2,000,000 from the FBS?

 

I don't understand how the FBS impacts travel and championships for all the sports teams. What did swimming and diving have to do with this?

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