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How Good are Women

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If you took USA Women Olympians, wrestling freestyle, how would they do against:

 

--NCAA All Americans?

 

--Average NCAA D1 wrestlers?

 

--Average NCAA D3 wrestlers?

 

--The top 8 at Pennsylvania State High School Tournament?

Edited by NJDan

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In track, elite women are 10-15% slower than elite men and he boys are 5-10% slower. If that holds true in wrestling, elite HS boys would beat a female Olympic champ comfortably. I compared recent Cali HS boys times with Olympic women's records. In general, the boys are slightly better. Interestingly, all of the women's records are decades old and so they are probably the result of doping.

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In track, elite women are 10-15% slower than elite men and he boys are 5-10% slower. If that holds true in wrestling, elite HS boys would beat a female Olympic champ comfortably. I compared recent Cali HS boys times with Olympic women's records. In general, the boys are slightly better. Interestingly, all of the women's records are decades old and so they are probably the result of doping.

UCONN Women's Basketball is probably the most dominant collegiate sports team of the last twenty years.  (Maybe Trinity Squash is better?)  They have been known to get clobbered by UCONN men's intramural teams that Coach Auriemma brings in for practice.  In fact, I believe Geno has male "managers" on scholarship whose primary job is to physically outmatch the women in practice on a daily basis in order to make them better.  These are former high school players who are not good enough to play in college. I actually think that this has become common in women's basketball. 

 

If UCONN women are getting handled by guys who can't play in college, I think that tells us something.

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UCONN Women's Basketball is probably the most dominant collegiate sports team of the last twenty years.  (Maybe Trinity Squash is better?)  They have been known to get clobbered by UCONN men's intramural teams that Coach Auriemma brings in for practice.  In fact, I believe Geno has male "managers" on scholarship whose primary job is to physically outmatch the women in practice on a daily basis in order to make them better.  These are former high school players who are not good enough to play in college. I actually think that this has become common in women's basketball. 

 

If UCONN women are getting handled by guys who can't play in college, I think that tells us something.

I had a friend who was given some scholarship money as a basketball manager for that exact reason.  He was a starter in HS who had zero offers even for D3 basketball and his job was to hammer the D1 girls starters in scrimmages. 

 

But I will say this is a stupid thread and Women's sports need to be enjoyed and celebrated for what they are rather than knocked for what they aren't.  Men's sprinters would get destroyed by mediocre horses but we still celebrate Usain Bolt for being the best in his sport and we put no asterisks on him because he is only the fastest human.  Let women be great without either pretending they are as good as men or pretending they are not good because they aren't as good as men.  

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Team USA (Women) prepared for the Sochi Olympics by playing high school boys teams in New England. They do it in order to get games against teams that are faster and stronger than they are since it is hard to find other women (outside of their Canadian rivals) who are as good as they are.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/olympics-fourth-place-medal/u-women-hockey-team-scrimmaging-against-high-school-170704740--oly.html

 

New England warm-up games:

3-1 loss to the Salisbury School in Connecticut

2-1 win over the Taft School in Connecticut

5-2 win over Saint Sebastian in Mass

6-3 loss to Dexter Southfield in Mass

 

 

The women went on to claim Silver.

 

Group Stage:

3-1 win over Finland

9-0 win over Switzerland

3-2 loss to Canada

 

Bracket:

6-1 win over Sweden (semi)

3-2 loss to Canada (finals)

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_hockey_at_the_2014_Winter_Olympics_–_Women%27s_tournament

 

As for wrestling, I recall hearing that some of our senior women would train with quality middle school athletes as they were able to go live with them since they were of a similar size and ability. Though I don't recall the particulars and this was probably going on ten years ago.

Edited by Pinnum

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my oldest (14 at the time) rolled with who i can only assume was victoria anthony at the OTC earlier this year...

 

according to him, he was very surprised that he actually had to wrestle to keep up with her... he thought he was just going to wreck her... he said he could out scramble her and that was the main difference between the two...

 

another friend was ali ragans main training partner last year and he said she was rough... no BS rolling with her...

 

most of the kids that show up at the OTC have to "prove" themselves against the senior women that are there... the thinking is that until they can get the upper hand on the women there is no reason for them to roll with the men... talking to several who have gone through that, it is not an ability/skill issue... the women are legit, but, the physicality between the two is the main deciding factor...

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I would say I have a better perspective on this than many.  When I was at the OTC, the women trained right after us.  Everyday, I would do extra conditioning and then rehab stuff so I would be in the room another hour or two after just watching the women train.

 

Often, they would bring boys in to train.  These were development kids or the kids from the local highschool down the street.  I really do think people would be surprised.  You would see an Olympic medalist or world medalist elite level female get handled fairly easily by 15 year olds who were just local kids.  Some of them were good by their standards; maybe a 6A state placer or whatever, but not elite HS.  People never really believed me that these ladies who get held up as posters for USAW get beaten by random kids from down the street.

 

Going overseas all the time, sometimes I would help if someone needed to warm up or cut weight or whatever.  When wrestling these girls, the first thing I did notice was that almost always, they were technically sound and had the correct instinct in scrambles.  I never went full out so I cant really comment on the speed and strength differences other than what I would see with them vs HS boys.  I do know their technique is better than the average HS wrestler though.

 

The other thing that struck me was how much more diligent and focused they were on preparation than men.  Maybe thats a male vs female thing, or just the USA womens culture, but to me, it was very evident that they were more organized and systematic when it came to practice prep or match prep.

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At this point, Women's wrestling has been around long enough that these athletes have been training the better part of their lives, often with elite coaching and a plethora of venues for competition.  The best of our Women's team can match men in every aspect of wrestling technique, training intensity, mat savvy, and pure courage.  That said, anyone who thinks that even an elite women would be any match for an average wrestler is being willfully obtuse.  I trained one of the most decorated women in the sports history, and I was beating her comfortably when she was winning World titles and I wasn't even qualifying for States as a 15 y.o with three years of experience. 

 

I bet some of the Olympians could place in freestyle in PA H.S. top 8, but I doubt there are any who could win it.

 

Really, it's the wrong question, though.  The real question is how close is the Women's team skill-wise to the Men, and I think they are really only slightly below at this point, personally.

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I would say I have a better perspective on this than many. When I was at the OTC, the women trained right after us. Everyday, I would do extra conditioning and then rehab stuff so I would be in the room another hour or two after just watching the women train.

 

Often, they would bring boys in to train. These were development kids or the kids from the local highschool down the street. I really do think people would be surprised. You would see an Olympic medalist or world medalist elite level female get handled fairly easily by 15 year olds who were just local kids. Some of them were good by their standards; maybe a 6A state placer or whatever, but not elite HS. People never really believed me that these ladies who get held up as posters for USAW get beaten by random kids from down the street.

 

Going overseas all the time, sometimes I would help if someone needed to warm up or cut weight or whatever. When wrestling these girls, the first thing I did notice was that almost always, they were technically sound and had the correct instinct in scrambles. I never went full out so I cant really comment on the speed and strength differences other than what I would see with them vs HS boys. I do know their technique is better than the average HS wrestler though.

 

The other thing that struck me was how much more diligent and focused they were on preparation than men. Maybe thats a male vs female thing, or just the USA womens culture, but to me, it was very evident that they were more organized and systematic when it came to practice prep or match prep.

I know a kid who wrestled at Coronado and outgrew the ladies at the OTC very early in HS. I wouldn't call this individual average, however. Like you said, he dominated world medalists and they moved him to a different group.

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If you took USA Women Olympians, wrestling freestyle, how would they do against:

 

--NCAA All Americans?

 

--Average NCAA D1 wrestlers?

 

--Average NCAA D3 wrestlers?

 

--The top 8 at Pennsylvania State High School Tournament?

Maroulis was a 2X state placer while she was actually in HS in MD without wrestling as a senior. MD is a fairly weak wrestling state but I’m sure she’s gotten better since then and especially if we’re talking freestyle which some of the guys referenced may not wrestle much of. I think she could probably beat average D3 wrestlers and the bottom half of PA HS state placers. Edited by 1032004

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