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How Good are Women

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How many more male HS wresters? 200k. 500k?

I’m not sure what the number of male HS wrestlers has to do with the fact that there might be 1 or 2 women that can beat a bunch of them.

 

You seem to be changing your argument around. At first you said there are guys “in rooms across” various states that could beat Maroulis. That’s kind of a vague statement, but for the most part I’d disagree. You later said she’d get beat by a good state champ. That I’d agree with. Earlier I said I think she could probably place somewhere like 5-8 in PA right now. Considering she placed twice in Maryland without even wrestling as a senior, I think 10 years, an Olympic Title and a lot more training later that’s not an unreasonable statement.

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Please post a vid of a women's senior freestyle match that proves the technique level is better than the men's senior freestyle match at around the same weight class and level of competition (eg, world championships, olympics).

That would be like finding a unicorn. It doesn’t exist.

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In this thread: People who like women's wrestling trying to convince everybody else that their opinion is the correct one and then criticizing/shaming others when they don't agree with their opinion.

Bingo. The volume of straw arguments in this thread is massive.

 

At no point have I, or anyone else, said these girls shouldn’t get to wrestle if they choose.

Just stop with the need to prove they’re just as skilled or talented as their male counterparts. They’re not.

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I’m not sure what the number of male HS wrestlers has to do with the fact that there might be 1 or 2 women that can beat a bunch of them.

 

You seem to be changing your argument around. At first you said there are guys “in rooms across” various states that could beat Maroulis. That’s kind of a vague statement, but for the most part I’d disagree. You later said she’d get beat by a good state champ. That I’d agree with. Earlier I said I think she could probably place somewhere like 5-8 in PA right now. Considering she placed twice in Maryland without even wrestling as a senior, I think 10 years, an Olympic Title and a lot more training later that’s not an unreasonable statement.

A. Placing in MD isn’t like placing in a good state.

B. What weight was she at in HS, and what weight would she go right now in HS folk?

 

She’d get absolutely dominated.

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Whether we like Women's wrestling or not, it appears that the powers at be have decided that on-going funding of men's wrestling is dependent on the success of women's wrestling.  Personally, I find that to be disappointing, but not surprising in today's PC world.

 

They may be able to make us watch it (while we wait for the men to compete), but they cannot make us like it. 

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Whether we like Women's wrestling or not, it appears that the powers at be have decided that on-going funding of men's wrestling is dependent on the success of women's wrestling.  Personally, I find that to be disappointing, but not surprising in today's PC world.

 

They may be able to make us watch it (while we wait for the men to compete), but they cannot make us like it. 

Which powers that be and what funding?

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Thank you for the feedback.   Yes it was you who I was thinking about earlier.   A reasonable, bright member of the board who posts good comments and perspectives.     

 

I do believe you read to much into my posts.  I love women and I am all for their success.  My grand  daughters as mentioned above for example were involved in all sorts of sports growing up and now the great grand daughters.   Most on them participate(d) in some form of sport and I've always been supportive, even helping out with fund raisers.    But of course they interest me, they're my family.   And no I never wished to keep women down as you stated, perhaps yeah that may have hit a nerve  now that I consider it since that's entirely against how I feel or believe.   

 

As for the women wrestlers, it's just not my cup of tea.  I don't want to stop them or deprive them of any of what you listed above.   Good for them.    I just don't like going to the men's events and then having to sit through women's matches.   If that makes me a bad guy, at my age I don't much care at all.    

 

Again thank you for the reply.   

 

My apologies, I misread your intention as an attack rather than opinion

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This thread is a trainwreck

 

Wrestling seems to have more than its fair share of  misogynists. Especially in the east (NJWC for example). For some odd reason a lot of men are intimidated by strong women and lash out as a result. I went through all of this when I was involved with women/girls in wrestling. It is a lot better than it used to be.  

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Whether we like Women's wrestling or not, it appears that the powers at be have decided that on-going funding of men's wrestling is dependent on the success of women's wrestling.  Personally, I find that to be disappointing, but not surprising in today's PC world.

 

They may be able to make us watch it (while we wait for the men to compete), but they cannot make us like it. 

 

And I am of the opinion that wrestling's own worst enemy is within, with outdated and misogynistic opinions on women and women in sport. It is really stupid for people in wrestling to shoot themselves in the feet this way. It is not as though this is a main stream sport, and those, not in the sport, care what happens to it. They don't.

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Wrestling seems to have more than its fair share of  misogynists. Especially in the east (NJWC for example). For some odd reason a lot of men are intimidated by strong women and lash out as a result. I went through all of this when I was involved with women/girls in wrestling. It is a lot better than it used to be.  

 

And I am of the opinion that wrestling's own worst enemy is within, with outdated and misogynistic opinions on women and women in sport. It is really stupid for people in wrestling to shoot themselves in the feet this way. It is not as though this is a main stream sport, and those, not in the sport, care what happens to it. They don't.

 

 

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Most of you who say that the average high school kid is just as good as the world team member or world medalist you're pretty spot on.  I had this discussion with a women's wrestler who at one point was ranked in the top 5 at her weight, and she flat out told me that the average high school kid at her weight would beat her. She said that if she wrestled an average high school kid a weight below her it would probably be more competitive. 

 

This is an exaggeration.

 

Indiana isn't Pennsylvania, but it's consistently Top 8-12 in nationally ranked kids and in All-Americans at the big, mainline national HS level off-season tournaments. We have a one-class state tournament where only 16 of the 310 schools get a kid to state at each weight. Current world-teamer Kayla Miracle made it to state, losing 4-0 in the blood round, and another world-teamer, Sarah Hildebrandt, was one match from qualifying for state. Both were competitive with some of the placers. If you compare their ability now to then and then consider the CHASM between them and Maroulis, it's clear Helen could bang with all but the elite HS kids if she wrestled as low as she was weight-wise at the Olympics.

Edited by maligned

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Wrestling seems to have more than its fair share of misogynists. Especially in the east (NJWC for example). For some odd reason a lot of men are intimidated by strong women and lash out as a result. I went through all of this when I was involved with women/girls in wrestling. It is a lot better than it used to be.

Misogyny!! Misogyny!!! Lol.

The ol’ “you’re intimidated” bs the libs trot out.

 

So cliche.

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Misogyny!! Misogyny!!! Lol.

The ol’ “you’re intimidated” bs the libs trot out.

 

So cliche.

 

He used to post constantly about his daughter wrestling and bragging about how she was going to be the next superstar wrestler or whatever.  He quit posting about it when it didn't pan out that way.  That's probably why he takes it so personally if anyone has a differing opinion about this topic.

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He used to post constantly about his daughter wrestling and bragging about how she was going to be the next superstar wrestler or whatever. He quit posting about it when it didn't pan out that way. That's probably why he takes it so personally if anyone has a differing opinion about this topic.

Yeah, she got concussions, lost all feeling for a few days, bit by bit stuff came back. She ended up in a wheelchair paralyzed in one leg for several months, eventually could walk again. Had vision problems for years after that. Basically couldn't read because the letters jumbled after a sentence or two. They would do the follow the finger thing and she would go totally blind for an hour. Pretty scary the first time it happened. Lots of other little issues. No definitive prognosis ever. Several weeks in a rehab hospital, other hospitals, specialists. All while trying to make enough money to pay the bills. Time, healed most of her issue, little bits at a time. But the personality changes and probable loss of some IQ stuck. I taught her to golf out of a book, because I am not really a golfer. Got her into the mid 80's, she had that whole natural athlete thing, then handed her off to experts who got into the 70's. She hated golf and decided not to pursue it in college. All in all for a few years there I was a bit preoccupied and wrestling and forums were not a priority. We take solice in that she weighs 100 pounds on a heavy day. Too small to have made any Olympic or World Team runs. BTW, you have some anger issues. LOL Edited by sgallan

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Yeah, she got concussions, lost all feeling for a few days, bit by bit stuff came back. She ended up in a wheelchair paralyzed in one leg for several months, eventually could walk again. Had vision problems for years after that. Basically couldn't read because the letters jumbled after a sentence or two. They would do the follow the finger thing and she would go totally blind for an hour. Pretty scary the first time it happened. Lots of other little issues. No definitive prognosis ever. Several weeks in a rehab hospital, other hospitals, specialists. All while trying to make enough money to pay the bills. Time, healed most of her issue, little bits at a time. But the personality changes and probable loss of some IQ stuck. I taught her to golf out of a book, because I am not really a golfer. Got her into the mid 80's, she had that whole natural athlete thing, then handed her off to experts who got into the 70's. She hated golf and decided not to pursue it in college. All in all for a few years there I was a bit preoccupied and wrestling and forums were not a priority. We take solice in that she weighs 100 pounds on a heavy day. Too small to have made any Olympic or World Team runs. BTW, you have some anger issues. LOL

Wow, very sorry your family went through all that of this. Glad she’s doing well.

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wow, sorry to read this Scott but glad she is doing much better. Just a question: I assume the concussions were due to wrestling or something external?

First concussion wrestling Cade Olivas, who sadly ironically had his career ended by concussions. Cleared she got number two wrestling. I ended that year wrestling, duh. Third one was falling off a stool in band. That one was catostraphic. All the bad stuff happened off of it. I could write a book.

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Badly? Or would it be close at any level?

 

Badly. It wouldn't be close at any level. No offense meant, but the strength discrepancy is way too high to discount.

 

I put their inferiority in track running events down to shorter legs than men. Track speed doesn't translate to mat speed though. For that matter I have known very few wrestlers who were actually fast runners: most were short legged dudes (because most wrestlers are little guys). Quickness in wrestling is measured in reaction time (reflexes), not in how fast you can run.

Edited by TobusRex

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First, yes there is a huge gap between men's and women's wrestling. Old dirty gave good insight into some of the women on national teams getting beat by good high school boys. I was surprised to see an Olympic medalist losing to college backups. This is a reality though. However, some of you are going way too far. Saying world team members would lose to avg hs kids is way off. Unless you definition of avg is off. I would call avg. someone who has a .500 record. The avg. kid does not make it out of their first post season tournament and doesn't even get close to qualifying for states. No way are these top young ladies losing to avg hs boys. Also, Helen Maroulis is at another level than all the other women and I think she would very likely place at PA states right now. I don't think she would win the tournament, but she would be competitive with all but the very elite high schoolers.

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