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How Good are Women

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First, yes there is a huge gap between men's and women's wrestling. Old dirty gave good insight into some of the women on national teams getting beat by good high school boys. I was surprised to see an Olympic medalist losing to college backups. This is a reality though. However, some of you are going way too far. Saying world team members would lose to avg hs kids is way off. Unless you definition of avg is off. I would call avg. someone who has a .500 record. The avg. kid does not make it out of their first post season tournament and doesn't even get close to qualifying for states. No way are these top young ladies losing to avg hs boys. Also, Helen Maroulis is at another level than all the other women and I think she would very likely place at PA states right now. I don't think she would win the tournament, but she would be competitive with all but the very elite high schoolers.

0.0% chance she’s placing in PA. Too 8 in that state can all wrestle at the D1 level. Just stop.

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0.0% chance she’s placing in PA. Too 8 in that state can all wrestle at the D1 level. Just stop.

Top 8 in PA can all wrestle D1?

 

Top 8 AA, AAA, or combined?

 

 

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Edited by cjc007

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Helen hasn't wrestled folkstyle in many years, don't know why she would even want to wrestle guys in freestyle anyway unless they want to undergo gender change.

 

She is an Olympic Champ in her sport.

 

She is exciting and an awesome wrestler!

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A. Placing in MD isn’t like placing in a good state.

B. What weight was she at in HS, and what weight would she go right now in HS folk?

 

She’d get absolutely dominated.

 

112 in HS, 116 in the Olympics.

 

Briefly checking some of her state brackets, her junior year when she took 6th the state champ was Adam Krop who was an NCAA qualifier for Princeton.  He beat the guy that beat Maroulis 10-8, 11-0. 

 

The guy who took 3rd that year (Quentin Leadbeter) wrestled a couple years for Navy.   He lost, then beat in the wrestlebacks the kid that Maroulis lost to 8-3.

 

https://www.mpssaa.org/assets/wintersports/wrestling/4A3A%202008.pdf

 

Her freshman year when she also took 6th, she lost 14-5 to the 3rd place finisher, Sean McCarty, who wrestled at American.

 

http://www.aacosports.com/Old/pdf/2006_4state.pdf

 

Again, this is while she was actually in HS and wrestling against other HS kids.  I'm sure she's much better now so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that she can beat some pretty good (but not the very best) HS kids.

Edited by 1032004

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I wonder if Helen is reading this thread?    :D

 

Also, wouldn't it be great if during the athlete press conference at Final X or World's, Nomad (or someone else on Flo staff)  come out of left field and ask Helen how she would do at the PA state tournament? (Ok, half joking here.)

 

Btw Nomad, sorry I couldn't make it to the Farrell. Big fan of yours, wanted to say hello. And since we're on this topic, I don't really follow women's wrestling but I'm a big fan of Helen's too. She's awesome.

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112 in HS, 116 in the Olympics.

 

Briefly checking some of her state brackets, her junior year when she took 6th the state champ was Adam Krop who was an NCAA qualifier for Princeton.  He beat the guy that beat Maroulis 10-8, 11-0. 

 

The guy who took 3rd that year (Quentin Leadbeter) wrestled a couple years for Navy.   He lost, then beat in the wrestlebacks the kid that Maroulis lost to 8-3.

 

https://www.mpssaa.org/assets/wintersports/wrestling/4A3A%202008.pdf

 

Her freshman year when she also took 6th, she lost 14-5 to the 3rd place finisher, Sean McCarty, who wrestled at American.

 

http://www.aacosports.com/Old/pdf/2006_4state.pdf

 

Again, this is while she was actually in HS and wrestling against other HS kids.  I'm sure she's much better now so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that she can beat some pretty good (but not the very best) HS kids.

If this is accurate (I’m sure it is) anyone that thinks Helen wouldn’t pound the vast overwhelming majority of Hs wrestlers today is retarded. Like I said above, the top women are closer to beating boys than the 125 pounders are to beating 184 pounders but nobody is suggesting the 125 pounders suck.

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If this is accurate (I’m sure it is) anyone that thinks Helen wouldn’t pound the vast overwhelming majority of Hs wrestlers today is retarded. Like I said above, the top women are closer to beating boys than the 125 pounders are to beating 184 pounders but nobody is suggesting the 125 pounders suck.

Everyone simply ignored your comparison because it sucked.

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Everyone simply ignored your comparison because it sucked.

It actually was a good comparison

 

We are talking about technique.

 

I would argue that 125ers tend to have better technique than 184 pounders, but obviously will lose to them most of the time.

 

Helen would lose to most top level hs recruits, but she is far more technical than them while they are in hs

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112 in HS, 116 in the Olympics.

 

Briefly checking some of her state brackets, her junior year when she took 6th the state champ was Adam Krop who was an NCAA qualifier for Princeton. He beat the guy that beat Maroulis 10-8, 11-0.

 

The guy who took 3rd that year (Quentin Leadbeter) wrestled a couple years for Navy. He lost, then beat in the wrestlebacks the kid that Maroulis lost to 8-3.

 

https://www.mpssaa.org/assets/wintersports/wrestling/4A3A%202008.pdf

 

Her freshman year when she also took 6th, she lost 14-5 to the 3rd place finisher, Sean McCarty, who wrestled at American.

 

http://www.aacosports.com/Old/pdf/2006_4state.pdf

 

Again, this is while she was actually in HS and wrestling against other HS kids. I'm sure she's much better now so I don't think it's unreasonable to say that she can beat some pretty good (but not the very best) HS kids.

So out of this jibberish, it’s determined she got murdered by a guy I never heard of, that was on the roster at American.

Also, Krop murdered the guy that beat her.

And this proves how awesome she is? How?

Take a look at the names of the brackets at the same time in NJ, PA, OH. Compare to this attempt at elevating her, and get back to me.

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Man people are so freakin sensitive. 

 

Here are some facts that people can't argue and can call misogynist all they want but men and women are biologically different...period.  Men are genetically programmed to be stronger and more athletic...period.  Men and women are not genetically equal...period.  Men are better athletically than women...period.

 

Now onto the other "stuff"...people enjoy watching different things...people have different opinions on topics...people can NOT truly know what someone believes deep down inside of them by reading a post on a wrestling forum...people that name call and label based on opinions are truly the closed minded ones.

 

Women's wrestling - I actually like watching it.  I don't care if someone else doesn't...nor should anyone give to shnits or giggles what other people like and don't like...nor should anyone call them a name or think they are a terrible human being because they don't like something you may like.

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Follow-up....I think Helen M. is the cat's meow and love watching her wrestle!! :) However, she would not win against boys high school state champs.

Never know unless they wrestle. Can guess all you want.

I don't see that happening. She has nothing to prove.

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Never know unless they wrestle. Can guess all you want.

I don't see that happening. She has nothing to prove.

They do wrestle, or did you miss the posts stating this? Edited by NJWC

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Follow-up....I think Helen M. is the cat's meow and love watching her wrestle!! :) However, she would not win against boys high school state champs.

Depends on the state and division. There is a division in Nevada that has maybe 15 schools. I like her chances there. There are well over a 100 state championship divisions. Girls have won state titles in them. Usually 106 (103). Starting with Michaela Hutchinson in big schools division in Alaska. Alaska is hardly a tough state but it a state championship. In PA., NJ, CA. NY, and a bunch of tough divisions in various states, yeah winning not gonna happen. Placing in any single division state, or Pa. isn't either. But do your homework before making blanket statements. Edited by sgallan

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So out of this jibberish, it’s determined she got murdered by a guy I never heard of, that was on the roster at American.

Also, Krop murdered the guy that beat her.

And this proves how awesome she is? How?

Take a look at the names of the brackets at the same time in NJ, PA, OH. Compare to this attempt at elevating her, and get back to me.

 

Actually Krop's freshman year he finished 3rd at 103, and a different girl (Nicole Woody) got 2nd (they didn't wrestle, but both beat the same kid 5-4, and both lost to the eventual champ Scott Mantua, who started in D3; Woody lost 6-2, Krop lost 9-3).  I think this helps show how much Maroulis has improved because that year Maroulis DNP at 112, yet now Maroulis is considered to be the best current American female wrestler.

 

So no, Maroulis did not seem to beat any of the top kids while she was actually still in high school (and even being on a D1 roster usually means you were pretty good in HS), but the question is could she beat them now.   Considering she beat some at least decent kids while she was in HS and was competitive with some of the better ones, with 10 additional years of experience and still wrestling against high school kids, in a style that she is more familiar with than them (which was the question in the OP), I think the best guys she would beat might be like a 5th-8th placer in PA.   No one said she would beat the PA state champ.

Edited by 1032004

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Please post a vid of a women's senior freestyle match that proves the technique level is better than the men's senior freestyle match at around the same weight class and level of competition (eg, world championships, olympics).

 

 

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And I am of the opinion that wrestling's own worst enemy is within, with outdated and misogynistic opinions on women and women in sport. It is really stupid for people in wrestling to shoot themselves in the feet this way. It is not as though this is a main stream sport, and those, not in the sport, care what happens to it. They don't.

 

Not being entertained by women's wrestling doesn't make one a misogynist.. 

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