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Eddieg19

Russian Ministry claims US refusal to grant visas behind 2018 Wrestling World Cup withdrawal

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Yes, the book came out in 2005 and quickly sold out. I even did a book signing in Hamtramck, and I think we ate lunch at the Polish Village Cafe. The book is called "The Tom Tyler Story: From Cowboy Star to Super Hero" and has a complete filmography. It has over 50 photos, from his movies and from his weightlifting career. I have written 29 books, including 17 on wrestling but was motivated to write Tom's biography because I loved his movies and I am also a long time weightlifter. .

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So essentially you want competitive sports on a world wide basis balkandized on the whim of politicians. We are truly a world and species that hates each other.

 

No, not essentially.   

 

Safety should always come before sports, no matter what politicians say.  I bet you can find two with opposing views. 

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No, not essentially.   

 

Safety should always come before sports, no matter what politicians say.  I bet you can find two with opposing views. 

And you think the Russian wrestling delegation who were denied visas posed a threat to the US if they participated in the world cup?

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And you think the Russian wrestling delegation who were denied visas posed a threat to the US if they participated in the world cup?

Do you have some proof that this alleged visa denial actually occurred?   Some are forbidden for cause (Mamashvilli (sp?)), but you think there was a directive given to the state department to deny visas for a sporting group?

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And you think the Russian wrestling delegation who were denied visas posed a threat to the US if they participated in the world cup?

 

No I don't.      That said, USA has tightened up their Visas and it's not just a rubber stamp.  This is a matter of national security.   Surely you've heard?       

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Do you have some proof that this alleged visa denial actually occurred?   Some are forbidden for cause (Mamashvilli (sp?)), but you think there was a directive given to the state department to deny visas for a sporting group?

I don't have access to any information to you do not.  I have seen an accusation by the Russians that their wrestling delegation was denied visas, and I have not seen a denial by the US state department.  So in the absence of of other information, my conclusion is that the US in fact denied visas to the Russian delegation.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-upset-its-wrestlers-cant-get-us-visas-world-champs-865829

 

I have absolutely no idea why the US embassy denied visas to the Russians, whether there was a directive or not.  In the absence of an intelligent explanation, my conclusion is that this was a really dumb move by the US, and US does not deserve to host UWW sanctioned event.  I am not picking on the US, when Iran was going to deny Visas to the US wrestlers a couple of years ago, I spoke out against that action, and expressed my opinion that the world cup should be moved elsewhere.

 

There are some very nasty people in the governments of Iran, Russia and US.  I would like those nasty people to keep sports out of their politics.

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No I don't.      That said, USA has tightened up their Visas and it's not just a rubber stamp.  This is a matter of national security.   Surely you've heard?       

I don't understand.  If the wrestlers do not pose a threat, then how is visa denial a matter of national security?  Wouldn't common sense suggest to let the athletes compete if they pose no threat to anyone?

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I don't understand.  If the wrestlers do not pose a threat, then how is visa denial a matter of national security?  Wouldn't common sense suggest to let the athletes compete if they pose no threat to anyone?

 

In terms of scrutinizing more thoroughly than in the past, I would not expect US state department to use "common sense" and give the Russians a free pass since you and i agree they pose no threat to national security.   We do know of at least 1 Russian who is not welcome.    Perhaps he's causing a red flag to ding the whole team.   I don't know.    But to your post above, I agree with you.  If USA cannot accommodate all the athletes, hold the event elsewhere.    I was planning on attending and specifically changed my plans so as to not support this world cup where the Russians are not permitted 

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In terms of scrutinizing more thoroughly than in the past, I would not expect US state department to use "common sense" and give the Russians a free pass since you and i agree they pose no threat to national security.   We do know of at least 1 Russian who is not welcome.    Perhaps he's causing a red flag to ding the whole team.   I don't know.    But to your post above, I agree with you.  If USA cannot accommodate all the athletes, hold the event elsewhere.    I was planning on attending and specifically changed my plans so as to not support this world cup where the Russians are not permitted 

Well then, we are in violent agreement in almost every point.  Other than using common sense :)

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I don't have access to any information to you do not.  I have seen an accusation by the Russians that their wrestling delegation was denied visas, and I have not seen a denial by the US state department.  So in the absence of of other information, my conclusion is that the US in fact denied visas to the Russian delegation.

 

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-upset-its-wrestlers-cant-get-us-visas-world-champs-865829

 

I have absolutely no idea why the US embassy denied visas to the Russians, whether there was a directive or not.  In the absence of an intelligent explanation, my conclusion is that this was a really dumb move by the US, and US does not deserve to host UWW sanctioned event.  I am not picking on the US, when Iran was going to deny Visas to the US wrestlers a couple of years ago, I spoke out against that action, and expressed my opinion that the world cup should be moved elsewhere.

 

There are some very nasty people in the governments of Iran, Russia and US.  I would like those nasty people to keep sports out of their politics.

I don't believe this narrative and for the same reason you do believe it.  There is no proof but for me the narrative makes no sense.  However, it is reasonable to me that the Russian team applied for visas way too late, couldn't get them and then put up a grandstander .to falsely claim victim hood. Bottom line - They should have had visas a month ago and this is a simple case of incompetence.

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I don't believe this narrative and for the same reason you do believe it.  There is no proof but for me the narrative makes no sense.  However, it is reasonable to me that the Russian team applied for visas way too late, couldn't get them and then put up a grandstander .to falsely claim victim hood. Bottom line - They should have had visas a month ago and this is a simple case of incompetence.

What facts to you base your opinion on?

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What facts to you base your opinion on?

The fact that it doesn't make sense and the fact there is no proof to the contrary. Russian visas are not suspended. The idea that the state department is going to refuse visas so we win the world cup or to make a point to Russia is very sketchy to me. The Russian world cup leadership is incompetent. It is that simple.

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The fact that it doesn't make sense and the fact there is no proof to the contrary. Russian visas are not suspended. The idea that the state department is going to refuse visas so we win the world cup or to make a point to Russia is very sketchy to me. The Russian world cup leadership is incompetent. It is that simple.

in that hypothesis, why is the US state department completely silent?

 

I don't think the State department would ever deny visas to a country's athletes because they don't want the home team to lose.  They (rightly so) consider the Russian government a rogue state.  I have a problem with projecting that to athletic events.

 

You respectfully shared your point of view, and I appreciate that.  I expressed my opinion.  I wish you well.

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in that hypothesis, why is the US state department completely silent?

 

I don't think the State department would ever deny visas to a country's athletes because they don't want the home team to lose. They (rightly so) consider the Russian government a rogue state. I have a problem with projecting that to athletic events.

 

You respectfully shared your point of view, and I appreciate that. I expressed my opinion. I wish you well.

I think the state department is silent becausevthis issue is irrelevant to them and is not their problem anyway.

I also wish you well and I appreciate you posting here.

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Our state department is run by an incompetent administration. Visas have been slowed down across the board, so it’s no surprise that this happened. It’s clear we can’t host an international event until we have adults running our country again.

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Those are not reliable sources. You’re essentially citing infowars and a tabloid. Find a legitimate source for that claim please (Washington post, Nytimes, etc).

Billy, here are a few more reliable sources for you

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/04/history-lesson-when-the-united-states-looked-the-other-way-on-chemical-weapons/?utm_term=.aecab361a4f1

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-and-iraq-go-way-back/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/31/iraq.politics

 

Here is  a couple of  pictures of Rumsfled with Sadam.  Of course the pictures proverumsfield-and-hussein.jpg nothing other than the two of them had  cordial meetings in 1983, five years before Iraq used checmical weapons  , and there is a video for good measure too~            

saddam-hussein-and-donald-rumsfeld.jpg

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Billy, here are a few more reliable sources for you

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2013/09/04/history-lesson-when-the-united-states-looked-the-other-way-on-chemical-weapons/?utm_term=.aecab361a4f1

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-and-iraq-go-way-back/

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/dec/31/iraq.politics

 

Here is a couple of pictures of Rumsfled with Sadam. Of course the pictures proverumsfield-and-hussein.jpg nothing other than the two of them had cordial meetings in 1983, five years before Iraq used checmical weapons , and there is a video for good measure too~ https://youtu.be/r42oejmpkgw

saddam-hussein-and-donald-rumsfeld.jpg

The US supported Iraq against Iran, but none of those sources say the US supplies them with chemical weapons. The fact is they didn’t.

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Allow me to post a few quotes from the articles

 

"large tranche of government documents reveals that the administrations of President Reagan and the first President Bush both authorized providing Iraq with intelligence and logistical support, and okayed the sale of dual use items — those with military and civilian applications — that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague."

 

"during the grinding Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s. As documented in 2002 by Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs, the Reagan administration knew full well it was selling materials to Iraq that was being used for the manufacture of chemical weapons, and that Iraq was using such weapons, but U.S. officials were more concerned about whether Iran would win rather than how Iraq might eke out a victory."

 

"The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents, including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons; and cluster bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile, the report says."

 

It seems pretty black and white to me.

Edited by irani

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We really screwed up with Iran.  Our intel was so lousy they didn't even see the revolution coming.  Not to mention that we caused that situation to occur in the first place.  Then when Iraq goes to war with them we back a loser in Saddam, who because of his debt he ran up during the war gets pissed at Kuwait and 2 years later invades them and forces us to step in and make him stop.  It's like we made repeated bad decisions and learned nothing from them.  Like when we went back to Iraq to invade them for no reason other than they were a convenient target who nobody really liked enough to stand up for, throw in some half baked excuse about terrorism, and we're all set.  Then that bad decision unleashes the crazies (ISIS) and look where we're at today.  

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Allow me to post a few quotes from the articles

 

"large tranche of government documents reveals that the administrations of President Reagan and the first President Bush both authorized providing Iraq with intelligence and logistical support, and okayed the sale of dual use items — those with military and civilian applications — that included chemicals and germs, even anthrax and bubonic plague."

 

"during the grinding Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s. As documented in 2002 by Washington Post reporter Michael Dobbs, the Reagan administration knew full well it was selling materials to Iraq that was being used for the manufacture of chemical weapons, and that Iraq was using such weapons, but U.S. officials were more concerned about whether Iran would win rather than how Iraq might eke out a victory."

 

"The US provided less conventional military equipment than British or German companies but it did allow the export of biological agents, including anthrax; vital ingredients for chemical weapons; and cluster bombs sold by a CIA front organisation in Chile, the report says."

 

It seems pretty black and white to me.

None of those quotes say the U.S. sold chemical weapons to Iraq.  What they did was bad in enabling them, but they did not supply them with chemical weapons.  

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None of those quotes say the U.S. sold chemical weapons to Iraq.  What they did was bad in enabling them, but they did not supply them with chemical weapons.  

Billy, I am afraid you are playing games with me now.

 

Yes, you are right, they did not sell them ready made chemical weapons. They sold them material that are illegal and could be used to manufacture chemical and biological weapons.  I am not sure that distinction is significant, but here you go.

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Then the oddest thing is how they view themselves. They are the BIGGEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, and they still view themselves as the little kid who gets bullied by the big ones. They just can't understand how someone could see them as the bullies.

 

 

Anatoli Antonov managed to make this about Russians. Again. Poor, tiny Russia is "threatened again". Oh, FFS. 

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