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Jasonmitchell32

“Push Out�

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Can we please stop calling it that - it’s a step out - there is a difference and the rules clarify this point - “if a wrestler clearly pushes his opponent out-of-bounds with no observable technique, no points shall be awarded (for e.g.-straight arm push-out). The “pushing” wrestler will be given an attention and told not to push anymore. Any subsequent “pushing” by the warned wrestler shall result in a caution and one point to his or her opponent for an illegal action.”

 

The announcers today (John Smith included) kept referring to it as a push out too - kind of annoying especially since I was watching with a number of kids I coach in freestyle and it didn’t reinforce the intent of the rule after having gone over it at length at practice this week.

 

Just sayin......

 

[/rant over]

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Can we please stop calling it that - it’s a step out - there is a difference and the rules clarify this point - “if a wrestler clearly pushes his opponent out-of-bounds with no observable technique, no points shall be awarded (for e.g.-straight arm push-out). The “pushing” wrestler will be given an attention and told not to push anymore. Any subsequent “pushing” by the warned wrestler shall result in a caution and one point to his or her opponent for an illegal action.”

 

The announcers today (John Smith included) kept referring to it as a push out too - kind of annoying especially since I was watching with a number of kids I coach in freestyle and it didn’t reinforce the intent of the rule after having gone over it at length at practice this week.

 

Just sayin......

 

[/rant over]

 

As far as I can tell the way they enforce the rule anytime you step out, are pushed out, or go out in any situations outside of being on your knees, it is a point every time. I remember when they first came up with the rule, and the rules clinic, where they made the same point you did, and were very strident about it, pretty much everybody thought it was silly semantics, and the way it was enforced suggested the same. This clinic was about 10 years ago, nothing has changed.  

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My point is it’s a step out - not a push out. And I’ve seen it enforced against the one pushing a number of times and when it’s obvious (read the rule - it’s pretty clear that it has to be a clear push to get a caution).

 

I’m just saying it bugs me that no one calls it the right thing.

 

 

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Can we please stop calling it that - it’s a step out - there is a difference and the rules clarify this point - “if a wrestler clearly pushes his opponent out-of-bounds with no observable technique, no points shall be awarded (for e.g.-straight arm push-out). The “pushing” wrestler will be given an attention and told not to push anymore. Any subsequent “pushing” by the warned wrestler shall result in a caution and one point to his or her opponent for an illegal action.”

The announcers today (John Smith included) kept referring to it as a push out too - kind of annoying especially since I was watching with a number of kids I coach in freestyle and it didn’t reinforce the intent of the rule after having gone over it at length at practice this week.

Just sayin......

[/rant over]

Burroughs final point against India was exactly what you described and he was awarded a point for it...

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I’m just saying it bugs me that no one calls it the right thing.

 

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Kind of like “Pin Fall”, a term that is not in any rulebook I’ve ever seen.

 

 

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Kind of like “Pin Fall”, a term that is not in any rulebook I’ve ever seen.

 

 

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I was able to find it in older rulebooks somewhere relatively recently. I can't right now figure out where I saw them. I don't have any real old ones. As I recall, this was from the forties (possibly a little more recent)

 

Found them (Page 47 of the 1928 but the most recent I could find was 1954 page 64)

 

http://nwhof.org/NCAA-Guides/PDF

Edited by gimpeltf

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Burroughs final point against India was exactly what you described and he was awarded a point for it...

Look - I’m not trying to argue anything - I know how everyone on here LOVES to take a discussion topic and tell the other how they are “wrong” - and yes, technically, under the rule, *maybe* JB should have been cautioned, but I think that b/c his opponent didn’t do squat to stop from going out, it made it less “borderline” so JB got the point.

 

My comment is simply that I wish we’d just call it what it is - a step out, regardless if you are pushed or not. Push out makes it sound as though that’s (1) a technique that should be taught/used and (2) that you only get a point when you push your opponent out, which is clearly not the case.

 

Kind of like “Pin Fall”, a term that is not in any rulebook I’ve ever seen.

 

 

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May be true, but it’s just a fun word and doesn’t really have a connotation that is contrary to what it really is.

 

 

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Look - I’m not trying to argue anything - I know how everyone on here LOVES to take a discussion topic and tell the other how they are “wrong” - and yes, technically, under the rule, *maybe* JB should have been cautioned, but I think that b/c his opponent didn’t do squat to stop from going out, it made it less “borderline” so JB got the point.

 

My comment is simply that I wish we’d just call it what it is - a step out, regardless if you are pushed or not. Push out makes it sound as though that’s (1) a technique that should be taught/used and (2) that you only get a point when you push your opponent out, which is clearly not the case.

 

 

May be true, but it’s just a fun word and doesn’t really have a connotation that is contrary to what it really is.

 

 

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What about when a guy is in on a leg and just walks him out of bounds for a point? I'm not trying to argue with you. Just trying to understand your prospective better.

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Again - this isn’t about the application of the rule - I’m actually ok with how it is applied. My issue is calling it by the actual name of the rule - it’s a step out, not push out. You get a point b/c your opponent stepped out - not b/c you pushed him out.

 

But to answer your question - that should be a one point step out.

 

 

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Again - this isn’t about the application of the rule - I’m actually ok with how it is applied. My issue is calling it by the actual name of the rule - it’s a step out, not push out. You get a point b/c your opponent stepped out - not b/c you pushed him out.

But to answer your question - that should be a one point step out.

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Well John Smith has been calling it a Push Out all weekend.

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Well John Smith has been calling it a Push Out all weekend.

Yep - mentioned that in my initial post and said it was confusing to a number of kids who I coach b/c I stress it isn’t a “push” out, it’s a step out. Don’t want them running around just pushing kids all over (some of them are only 8-9).

 

 

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Yep - mentioned that in my initial post and said it was confusing to a number of kids who I coach b/c I stress it isn’t a “push” out, it’s a step out. Don’t want them running around just pushing kids all over (some of them are only 8-9).

 

 

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It’s called as if it is a push out though....

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Look - I’m not trying to argue anything - I know how everyone on here LOVES to take a discussion topic and tell the other how they are “wrong” - and yes, technically, under the rule, *maybe* JB should have been cautioned, but I think that b/c his opponent didn’t do squat to stop from going out, it made it less “borderline” so JB got the point.

 

My comment is simply that I wish we’d just call it what it is - a step out, regardless if you are pushed or not. Push out makes it sound as though that’s (1) a technique that should be taught/used and (2) that you only get a point when you push your opponent out, which is clearly not the case.

 

 

May be true, but it’s just a fun word and doesn’t really have a connotation that is contrary to what it really is.

 

 

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When you made a meaningless semantics topic you should have expected meaningless semantic arguments.  

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I think this rule is just like many of the freestyle rules....very subjective and inconsistent.  Probably more points are awarded when someone steps out because they were pushed than if they just stepped out with no pressure.

 

Not really a step out rule either, because that depends on if the ref feels if you are on the mat when you step out..

 

Good luck coaching a rule that is probably called correctly less than 90 percent of time.

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I think this rule is just like many of the freestyle rules....very subjective and inconsistent.  Probably more points are awarded when someone steps out because they were pushed than if they just stepped out with no pressure.

 

Not really a step out rule either, because that depends on if the ref feels if you are on the mat when you step out..

 

Good luck coaching a rule that is probably called correctly less than 90 percent of time.

 

It's not subjective. You have to wrestle your opponent out to get points.

 

1. No points if a wrestler pushes the other wrestler out.

2. One point if a wrestler wrestles the other wrestler out.

 

It's very easy to understand. If a wrestler "punches" the opponent out with stretched hands, he will not get points. Meaning the opponent steps out.

 

Those stretched hand push-outs were a real problem in larger weight classes in the old rules. It was not wrestling.

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It's not subjective. You have to wrestle your opponent out to get points.

 

1. No points if a wrestler pushes the other wrestler out.

2. One point if a wrestler wrestles the other wrestler out.

 

It's very easy to understand. If a wrestler "punches" the opponent out with stretched hands, he will not get points. Meaning the opponent steps out.

 

Those stretched hand push-outs were a real problem in larger weight classes in the old rules. It was not wrestling.

What you described is subjective. The ref determines whether or not a wrestler was pushed out or wrestled out. That is completely subjective there. Today Burroughs tech against Georgia was earned off a straight up standing push. It happened EXACTLY how you described that it shouldnt. Edited by BigTenFanboy

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It's not subjective. You have to wrestle your opponent out to get points.

 

1. No points if a wrestler pushes the other wrestler out.

2. One point if a wrestler wrestles the other wrestler out.

 

It's very easy to understand. If a wrestler "punches" the opponent out with stretched hands, he will not get points. Meaning the opponent steps out.

 

Those stretched hand push-outs were a real problem in larger weight classes in the old rules. It was not wrestling.

 

So when a wrestler grabs a leg  and pushes an opponent out of bounds that is also a step out, not a push out?   Even though he  has  no leverage to stay in bounds?  Or is that considered wrestling, not pushing?

 

Seems subjective to me

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So when a wrestler grabs a leg  and pushes an opponent out of bounds that is also a step out, not a push out?   Even though he  has  no leverage to stay in bounds?  Or is that considered wrestling, not pushing?

 

Seems subjective to me

 

 

If you have grabbed the opponent and you walk your opponent out, its not a point. If you attack and grab the leg and your opponent steps out because of this attack, it's a point. If you are trying to execute an attack from the leg and your opponent steps out, it's a point. 

 

Though in freestyle most stepouts seem to give points to the attacker if the defending wrestler steps out when his leg(s) is(are) in the opponents hands.

 

It's more of a problem in greco, where the stretched-out-hands push-outs were common in the old rules.

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If you have grabbed the opponent and you walk your opponent out, its not a point. If you attack and grab the leg and your opponent steps out because of this attack, it's a point. If you are trying to execute an attack from the leg and your opponent steps out, it's a point. 

 

Though in freestyle most stepouts seem to give points to the attacker if the defending wrestler steps out when his leg(s) is(are) in the opponents hands.

 

It's more of a problem in greco, where the stretched-out-hands push-outs were common in the old rules.

Gilman scored 5 times the way you described that shouldn't be a point.

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.

If you have grabbed the opponent and you walk your opponent out, its not a point. If you attack and grab the leg and your opponent steps out because of this attack, it's a point. If you are trying to execute an attack from the leg and your opponent steps out, it's a point. 

 

Though in freestyle most stepouts seem to give points to the attacker if the defending wrestler steps out when his leg(s) is(are) in the opponents hands.

 

It's more of a problem in greco, where the stretched-out-hands push-outs were common in the old rules.

 That may be the rule.   That is not how it is scored.  I cant remember the offensive wrestler ever being denied a point when running the opponent out with the leg.

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://twitter.com/Snyder_man45/status/989212658950983681%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Etweet&ved=2ahUKEwj41KvXltfaAhWuiOAKHTSGBFIQ_1MwAXoECAQQBw&usg=AOvVaw2bTDX9OLLYazHPmDLpP7iA

 

Someone needs to tell Kyle Snyder it's a "step out" not a "push out", right jmitch32?

 

And pushing his opponent out of bounds won't get him any points. He needs to "wrestle" him out, right don ?

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https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://twitter.com/Snyder_man45/status/989212658950983681%3Fref_src%3Dtwsrc%255Egoogle%257Ctwcamp%255Eserp%257Ctwgr%255Etweet&ved=2ahUKEwj41KvXltfaAhWuiOAKHTSGBFIQ_1MwAXoECAQQBw&usg=AOvVaw2bTDX9OLLYazHPmDLpP7iA

 

Someone needs to tell Kyle Snyder it's a "step out" not a "push out", right jmitch32?

 

And pushing his opponent out of bounds won't get him any points. He needs to "wrestle" him out, right don ?

 

 

It doesn't matter. The rules are clear, you do NOT get points for pushing your opponent out. If your opponent steps out because he is trying to stop you from executing an attack, you get points. It's clear.

 

Look, simple examples:

 

1) If you see your opponent is in the zone area, and you SHOVE your opponent out, you do not get a point.

2) If your opponent is in the zone area, and you try to execute a bear hug attack on his body and your opponent backs out of the ring, you get a point.

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It doesn't matter. The rules are clear, you do NOT get points for pushing your opponent out. If your opponent steps out because he is trying to stop you from executing an attack, you get points. It's clear.

 

Look, simple examples:

 

1) If you see your opponent is in the zone area, and you SHOVE your opponent out, you do not get a point.

2) If your opponent is in the zone area, and you try to execute a bear hug attack on his body and your opponent backs out of the ring, you get a point.

At the world cup Jordan Burroughs did example 1 exactly as you described and was awarded a point.

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