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josephe

FS rules - like them?

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I think they need to do away with any rule that is an exception. Like scoring last breaks a tie is fine with me, but scoring last except when there is a higher value scored move for the other wrestler is a ridiculous rule. Anything that takes that much longer to explain to a casual fan is bad for wrestling imo.

Agree. Too much over thinking. It is as if they get into a room and get bogged down with the "what if" scenarios.

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True, but to this day American wrestlers struggle with this double over body locks.

 

In large part because (in my opinion) that position is drilled out of most of our wrestlers at an early age.  It's not a position that people practice regularly in folkstyle at the youth through high school level, because the risk/reward in folkstyle steers away from it.  At least in my case I know for sure about the only thing coaches taught from that position was how to defend it, rather than how to score off of it. 

 

Hell, in folkstyle if someone jacks up double unders, or locks up double overs, you can back your way out of bounds completely across the mat and get away with it with no call, or at worst a stall warning. 

Edited by steamboat_charlie

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Seriously, Freestyle has far more action and is much more fun to watch from my perspective.  There is also the added element of having to score from neutral without exposing your back - how is that not a basic characteristic of wrestling?  The excitement of a turn in Folk just seems greater because fans have had to sit there watching 15 matches of parallel riding before seeing someone go on their back.   Take out riding time, and think it'd be a much closer call. 

Everyone knows wrestling is about control. Control is the most important aspect of wrestling. And nothing emphasizes control like having a rule preventing locked hands from top.  Because if you can control somebody with a spiral ride, that is real wrestling.  

 

Another critical aspect of control:  Diving at ankles and rolling across your back for 2 minutes.  That is exciting wrestling!

 

The problem with freestyle is that it is too easy to get teched with a leg lace.  Sure, very few American wrestlers have par terre offense or defense..But have you seen how good guys like Spencer Lee or Mark Hall are with leg laces??? It is unfair and the rule should be changed.  

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Everyone knows wrestling is about control. Control is the most important aspect of wrestling. And nothing emphasizes control like having a rule preventing locked hands from top. Because if you can control somebody with a spiral ride, that is real wrestling.

 

Another critical aspect of control: Diving at ankles and rolling across your back for 2 minutes. That is exciting wrestling!

 

The problem with freestyle is that it is too easy to get teched with a leg lace. Sure, very few American wrestlers have par terre offense or defense..But have you seen how good guys like Spencer Lee or Mark Hall are with leg laces??? It is unfair and the rule should be changed.

I can throw legs in and ride HS school kids, good ones, for an entire match. I can be strong and get an inside ties and get a rest against all except DI wrestlers even being old. I can hang with those better than me. I can get a cross wrist, keep feet inside ankles, and do the same. I can belly out and catch a blow against people who couldn't turn me if their life depended on it. I was a coach for years and tormented kids all the time. All coaches do. I am in control, but I would hardly call it wrestling. This all in folkstyle. An example of what I am talking about? Bresser beat Lee. Just saying folk is better because this or that doesn't address the Bresser beating Lee scenario.You all are taking one style to task, which does have issues like continuous laces, without owning up to your preferred styles issues. FWIW, I was mediocre at best as an old guy in my " second" career. But I could hang in folk. The guys who were better in free, there is nowhere to hide. You lose position even a little and things get ugly quick. Edited by sgallan

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I can throw legs in and ride HS school kids, good ones, for an entire match. I can be strong and get an inside ties and get a rest against all except DI wrestlers even being old. I can hang with those better than me. I can get a cross wrist, keep feet inside ankles, and do the same. I can belly out and catch a blow against people who couldn't turn me if their life depended on it. I was a coach for years and tormented kids all the time. All coaches do. I am in control, but I would hardly call it wrestling. This all in folkstyle. An example of what I am talking about? Bresser beat Lee. Just saying folk is better because this or that doesn't address the Bresser beating Lee scenario.You all are taking one style to task, which does have issues like continuous laces, without owning up to your preferred styles issues. FWIW, I was mediocre at best as an old guy in my " second" career. But I could hang in folk. The guys who were better in free, there is nowhere to hide. You lose position even a little and things get ugly quick.

Completely agree.  Bresser was in complete control that entire match and was clearly the better wrestler.  Another example of control: Edge wrestling.  Nothing says control like holding one leg inbounds while blindly reaching to catch your opponent's second leg.  I also loved your example about wrist control.  When was the last time you saw somebody riding with wrist control in freestyle?  Every once in a while you see a tilt, but not nearly enough.  

 

See the following video on the importance of wrist control in terms of self defense.  If this video doesn't convince you how important wrist control is-completely cementing that folkstyle is the better style- then nothing will. 

 

Edited by Billyhoyle

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I'm for them with a few exceptions:

 

One five minute period. As someone else here said recently, if you can't score enough points to win in five minutes, the problem is not the rules.

 

Have a 15 second "turn clock" that goes the moment a takedown is awarded. No more refs deciding how long opponents stay down on the mat. Everyone abides by the same clock. If you turn your opponent within that time frame, the clock stops, resets and starts again once the turn takes place. No turn, back to your feet.

 

For turns, go one direction, then the other, then release the hold. That last part is not unlike American Folk and has a guy like Robles in mind.

 

 

I'm ok with this, though i think 6 minutes is better. I have always though that the mat time should be timed. 25 seconds to execute a move, and stop clock when near pin. Continue if opponent escapes pin. 

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I guess. But the only way to stop multiples involves removing ligaments.

 

 

My opponent popped my knee when i stopped him from executing the second lace. And that pop was loud. Bang.

 

Yeah, Im all for only one lace at a time. You can just give it up, if the opponent has a strong enough grip.

 

It's the same as with greco. Lace defence is the most dangerous move in freestyle (knees). In greco, the most dangerous move is tilt defence (shoulders).

 

I'm still hoping that normal wrestling styles would take mat-lock points to use. IE. If you have a "lock" that your opponent cannot break in due time, you get points. Also, points for keeping your opponent in pin situation should be awarded.

 

This would make tilts less prominent (boring for most casual viewers), and help keep wrestlers intact.

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Everyone knows wrestling is about control. Control is the most important aspect of wrestling. And nothing emphasizes control like having a rule preventing locked hands from top.  Because if you can control somebody with a spiral ride, that is real wrestling.  

 

Another critical aspect of control:  Diving at ankles and rolling across your back for 2 minutes.  That is exciting wrestling!

 

The problem with freestyle is that it is too easy to get teched with a leg lace.  Sure, very few American wrestlers have par terre offense or defense..But have you seen how good guys like Spencer Lee or Mark Hall are with leg laces??? It is unfair and the rule should be changed.

Your entire post starts with a huge assumption.  Folkstyle is definitely about control, but Freestyle is about back exposure - two similar but different goals.  I wouldn't mind changing leg laces and gut wrenches to one or two turns per takedown/reversal, but would only do so in a trade to get rid of riding time, the most boring rule in the history of wrestling. 

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I'm OK with multiple scoring on leg laces and gut wrenches, mostly because its within the setting of a tournament and not a dual. The way matches are spaced in FS tournaments, wrestlers should make every effort to sprint and not grind through a bracket. Put away your opponent as quickly as possible and get ready for the next match in like 20 minutes. I think it's okay to reward a wrestler who catches an opponent, whether by pin or a multi-score move that ends the match early. Fits with the attention span of today's sports viewers, too.

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I would definitely be ok with limiting the number of leg lace exposures because of the injury risk component and the possibility of just giving up a couple and still being in the match.

 

I disagree with guts though. If you give up a trap-arm gut, it's basically the same thing as giving up a fall--it's on you. I'm fine with trap-arm gut wrenches meaning the end of a match--it's warranted in its achievement and in its surrender.

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