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World Cup Takaways - USA

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Yes Chamizo has moved up (wrestled 2 or 3 tournies at 74 this year, hasn't lost)

And it's a non-olympic weight so it'll be thin as usual, and his losses at the last 3 worlds have been

2017 - Lost to Chamizo got silver

2016 - Lost 3-3 to Kurbanov (7th)

2015 lost to Yazdani took Bronze

 

Why don't you feel he is finalist material?

 

 

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Because I didn't know Frank had moved up. 

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Because I didn't know Frank had moved up.

Fair enough, I personally think Chamizo takes 74kg.

If you were thinking Greens ceiling was silver because of that I completely understand, Chamizo is the man

 

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I'd take Ramonov or Kurbanaliev comfortably over Green. They have to show up though. Green has been fairly consistent hanging around the top 5 for the past few years.

Is Ramonov definitely moving up from 65?

 

I think he is a way tougher matchup for Green than Kurbanaliev

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My take on all this:

 

57kg:  Gilman is tough.  There were some mistakes made in the AZE match (not going to try to spell his name), but showed that he could hang with him.  For some reason, the AZE wrestler looked inordinately larger than Gilman.  HOWEVER...  I agree that NaTo, Lee, and/or Fix (this top 4 is stellar) could be our rep come WC's.

 

61kg:  Maple looks as if he could run through people, and then became incredibly conservative with his style.  His length could be leveraged (pun intended) to a great degree.  Otherwise, I'm concerned 61kg is a thin class for us on the international scene.

 

65kg:  Logie looks undersized.  HOWEVER, aside from getting his bell rung against Japan and then looking like a fish, he brought it vs. Haji, and Haji is NO slouch at all.  He is and will be competitive with anyone at this weight class, however, Zain is most likely improved since their last meetings.  For now, I'll pick Stieber to be our rep, and to have a chance at medaling.  

 

70kg:  Green looked good, but his gas tank needs some work?  Either that, or his conservative style allowed folks back into matches that he shouldn't have.  With Molinaro, Kulchytsky AND NOLF all as potential threats... he needs to be looking over his shoulder (particularly Nolf and Molinaro).

 

74kg:  JB looked good.  His pin was electric.  'Nuff said.

 

79kg:  I was super impressed by Dake.  Personally, I've never been a huge fan, but while watching, all I could do was smile.  Dake will be our rep, over Ringer (barely), and has a very good chance at medaling.

 

86kg:  Mark my words, and save this post.  Taylor will be world champion this year.  Period.  HYC will pose an immediate threat, but something is telling me that DT is on a mission, and will NOT be denied.  I see a scenario where he techs and/or pins the world.

 

92kg:  Cox at 92kg.  Seems to need some adjustment time.  I also think he'll need to continue looking over his shoulder, as there are some quality guys that could push him.  Cox will be our rep, has a good chance at medaling, but needs to improve on some areas that Alborov exploited.

 

97kg:  Snyder.  P4P best in world.  Period.  Showed it.  Loved it.  Was awesome.

 

125kg:  Gwiz.  Ceiling is 3rd.  I hope he's our rep for one more year to allow Gable to come into his own.

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I am not sure how representative this world cup really is, without Russia or Iran and being at home for USA. AZE was 1 match away from tying it, not great.

 

My predictions for the 2018 worlds:

 

57-61-65-92-125kg:  No medal.

 

Medal contenders:

 

70kg:  Green was not great at the world cup, with some luck of the draw may get bronze, more likely no medal if he wrestles anything like world cup.

74kg:  Burroughs is awesome, but its never clear vs. the Russians. Likely Gold though, but if he wrestles Tsabolov its 50/50. 

79kg:  Not impressed with Dake's match with Hasanov. May get bronze unless he draws the Russian earlier, more likely, no medal.

86kg:  Taylor is awesome, but won't beat Yazdani in a worlds match. Bronze this time around.

97kg:  Snyder gets Gold unless Sadulaev shows up at 97kg. Snyder is great, but I still predict Sadulaev beats him if they wrestle again. 

 

I expect 3-4 medals for USA, something like: 1-2 golds, 2 bronze. 

 

I am curious of Russia's line-up at the Euro's this year, this will be indicatative of their world's line up. I expect this year's worlds to be more indicate of how good the teams actually are as Olympic considerations start kicking in.

Edited by wfan24

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Just my observation with Cox at 92kg, I thought he looked to have lost some explosiveness that we saw at World's last year as well as in Rio 2016. May just be an adjustment, but I was surprised to see him drop two yesterday.

I was accused of this by my coach in HS, so I think i can say it here, but Cox seems to be too nice.  Overly nice to his opponents and I think it costs him in the grit department. 

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I'd take Ramonov or Kurbanaliev comfortably over Green. They have to show up though. Green has been fairly consistent hanging around the top 5 for the past few years.

I think Greens ability to get 4pt takedowns keeps him competitive with anyone who wrestles a standard style. He had 0 chance against Chamizos funk/counters but wouldn't count him out against any at the weight

 

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I was accused of this by my coach in HS, so I think i can say it here, but Cox seems to be too nice. Overly nice to his opponents and I think it costs him in the grit department.

I can see this. I hope he realizes you can be a good guy and savage as well. Like Dave Schultz, nicest guy ever but when the whistle blew, just dang.

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I am not sure how representative this world cup really is, without Russia or Iran and being at home for USA. AZE was 1 match away from tying it, not great.

 

My predictions for the 2018 worlds:

57-61-65-92-125kg: No medal.

Medal contenders:

70kg: Green was not great at the world cup, with some luck of the draw may get bronze, more likely no medal if he wrestles anything like world cup.

74kg: Burroughs is awesome, but its never clear vs. the Russians. Likely Gold though, but if he wrestles Tsabolov its 50/50.

79kg: Not impressed with Dake's match with Hasanov. May get bronze unless he draws the Russian earlier, more likely, no medal.

86kg: Taylor is awesome, but won't beat Yazdani in a worlds match. Bronze this time around.

97kg: Snyder gets Gold unless Sadulaev shows up at 97kg. Snyder is great, but I still predict Sadulaev beats him if they wrestle again.

I expect 3-4 medals for USA, something like: 1-2 golds, 2 bronze.

I am curious of Russia's line-up at the Euro's this year, this will be indicatative of their world's line up. I expect this year's worlds to be more indicate of how good the teams actually are as Olympic considerations start kicking in.

Snyder gets gold even with Sudulaev and even if Sudulaev takes his, uh, vitamins. Snyder seems to have scattered that weight out. First meetings are when you can steal a win on him. He adjusts really well and is tougher the next go. He even has some par terre now. That makes him unfair. Edited by sgallan

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sgallan, well, lets see it...:) Snyder adapts the 2nd time? Like with Gatsalov? :) You will next see a similar thing with Snyder/Sad as was with JB/Geduev. JB was completely neutralized at the Olympics. I think many people will be shocked at how that match will go.

Edited by wfan24

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sgallan, well, lets see it...:) Snyder adapts the 2nd time? Like with Gatsalov? :) You will next see a similar thing with Snyder/Sad as was with JB/Geduev. JB was completely neutralized at the Olympics. I think many people will be shocked at how that match will go.

I am pretty sure I was talking about Snyder not JB. Focus son. To help out, JB is the 74 kilo guy. African American. Leaner athletic build. Cool beard. Really really good. In and out counter, reshot, and power double. Great lace. And Snyder has a more blocky athletic build. Very white guy. Ridiculously strong. At 97 kg. More direct power style that stays on you. Are you to Snyder what Retired Poster is to Pico per chance? Edited by sgallan

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sgallan, well, lets see it...:) Snyder adapts the 2nd time? Like with Gatsalov? :) You will next see a similar thing with Snyder/Sad as was with JB/Geduev. JB was completely neutralized at the Olympics. I think many people will be shocked at how that match will go.

More fun, I was at a high level youth tournament, and this 91 pounder won a marquee match. The 77 pound kid had won the match and tournament, and then lost next big tournament to the same kid. Because of this loss by the 77 pound kid, it goes without saying, and is automatic, the 91 pound final will flip as well. Edited by sgallan

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I am pretty sure I was talking about Snyder not JB. Focus son. To help out, JB is the 74 kilo guy. African American. Leaner athletic build. Cool beard. Really really good. In and out counter, reshot, and power double. Great lace. And Snyder has a more blocky athletic build. Very white guy. Ridiculously strong. At 97 kg. More direct power style that stays on you. Are you to Snyder what Retired Poster is to Pico per chance?

Snyder is one of the few guys who gets better almost every time he wrestles, whether it's in practice or live action.

 

He hasn't reached his ceiling yet, which is insane.

 

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I was accused of this by my coach in HS, so I think i can say it here, but Cox seems to be too nice. Overly nice to his opponents and I think it costs him in the grit department.

I don't think you're wrong. I'm a huge fan of J'den's, and I know he has the desire to win, and the ability to beat just about anyone in the world, but he seems to lack the killer instinct he needs to pull out the close matches. In all of his international losses, I've felt he would have won if they wrestled again an hour later. If he figures it out, he's a gold medal contender.

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A lot of people are saying no way we would have beat Russia and Iran? Why not? I think it would have been close yes just like the worlds it came down to Snyder's match. I think we have three Gold favorites and if all three win it and we get some 3rd's and 5th's. I like our chances:

 

Snyder-heavy favorite

 

Taylor-heavy favorite....I think Yazdani is a perfect matchup for him. Would not be surprised by a techfall. I don't see how Dake beats him after watching them both on world stage-baffles me. A certain guy built like Cox or Varner could muscle him and catch-maybe. But Yazdani is not that guy!

 

Burroughs-favorite

Edited by PRyan2012

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I don't think you're wrong. I'm a huge fan of J'den's, and I know he has the desire to win, and the ability to beat just about anyone in the world, but he seems to lack the killer instinct he needs to pull out the close matches. In all of his international losses, I've felt he would have won if they wrestled again an hour later. If he figures it out, he's a gold medal contender.

 

Well your right, just look at him and DT.  Got him figured out and came back and won

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A lot of people are saying no way we would have beat Russia and Iran? Why not? I think it would have been close yes just like the worlds it came down to Snyder's match. I think we have three Gold favorites and if all three win it and we get some 3rd's and 5th's. I like our chances:

 

Snyder-heavy favorite

 

Taylor-heavy favorite....I think Yazdani is a perfect matchup for him. Would not be surprised by a techfall. I don't see how Dake beats him after watching them both on world stage-baffles me. A certain guy built like Cox or Varner could muscle him and catch-maybe. But Yazdani is not that guy!

 

Burroughs-favorite

If DT can handle the first 2 min of Yazdani I believe your right he will win, DT has the mental advantage already unlike the Dake situation.  I believe DT wins by large margin.

 

Burroughs I think will handle Chamizo. I think burroughs is just as good as when he was 22.  He is just so more technical than he was before and smarter  Im going with Burroughs for number 6

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If DT can handle the first 2 min of Yazdani I believe your right he will win, DT has the mental advantage already unlike the Dake situation.  I believe DT wins by large margin.

 

Burroughs I think will handle Chamizo. I think burroughs is just as good as when he was 22.  He is just so more technical than he was before and smarter  Im going with Burroughs for number 6

 

Did Dake just lose to DT again in a fantasy matchup?

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 wow you are delusional regarding James Green

 

How is his so close to world gold? He's essentially the wrestling equivalent of those boxers who crush cans. When he hits a good opponent he completely falls apart.

 

2015 - Lost to Yazdani at 70kg 9-4. Yazdani himself got handled by Gadzhiamagomedmov in the finals 10-3. 

 

2016 - Lost to Kurbanov who lost to Hosseinkhani for bronze. Hosseinkhani himself was destroyed by Kurbanaliev 8-0, who went on to win gold

 

2017 - Made the finals, pretty much got embarrassed by Chamizo. 

 

The weight would have to be completely empty of all top talent for Green to win gold based on his past 3 years. 

Edited by Shiraz123

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I think many people get too excited about the results of these world cup matches or beat the streets or even Yarygin, but they are not really indicative of the worlds. Those are mostly scouting opportunities for worlds/olympics so looking impressive there does not mean much. Worlds is a different thing. 

 

Last year's worlds, post-Olympic year, Russia shows up without Ramonov (gold Rio), without Geduev (silver Rio), without Makhov, without Bekbulatov (who teched the world champ at that weight at the Euros), with Sadulaev being off the entire year and going up in a massive weight jump for fun, with few guys for whom this was first worlds....and they got 2nd place by 1 point....crazy...At the same time, U.S. showed up with their best team and won virtually all toss-up matches. 

 

Does anyone seriously think this repeats? not anytime soon. 

 

sgallan, you didn't get what I was saying may be. I said what happened to JB vs. Geduev is what I predict will  happen to Snyder next time he wrestles Sadulaev.  Wait and see :)

 

btw, I know Snyder improves and he is a great wrestler, but somehow vs. the top Russians he is not "wow": 5:5 with Gadisov, 6:5 with 15-20 pounds smaller Sadulaev, 2:5 loss to Gatsalov in his Olympic year, 0:3 loss to Boltukaev in his Olympic year, not even counting BTS as that is a "friendly" loss to Gatsalov. I would like to see him vs. Sadulaev a couple of more times. btw not sure where Georgi Gogaev is, he crushed Snyder 8:1 at the Junior Words.

Edited by wfan24

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