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Why NAIA?


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#21 Warren_Haynes

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:06 AM

Colorado School of Mines is the one school that I would say stands out in D2 for their quality of education. There are a few others (UC-San Diego, Hillsdale, Michigan Tech, Stonehill, Azusa Pacific) but none of them offer wrestling.

All in all D2 doesn't have an academic reputation.

It is kind of a awkward position for the D2 schools. They aren't fully committed to athletic excellence like the D1 schools and they don't buy into the D3 model that athletics are an activity for students while they are pursuing their academics. They dabble in both models.

Truman State (Missouri) is Div 2 and always on the list of Best Values for colleges in the Midwest by US News. My brother played soccer there in the early to mid 2000's. His incoming freshman class had an avg. ACT of 26. I want to say it's around $8000 a year and they have a wrestling team, as well.


Edited by Warren_Haynes, 13 April 2018 - 02:06 AM.


#22 Pinnum

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 02:31 AM

Truman State is a quality school. My post was not meant to be disparaging to any of the schools within D2, there are many schools within D2 that I would have no problem sending my kids to for their education.

However, the bulk of the schools in D2, and even the better ones, are not as highly regarded as those in D1 and D3. That was my only point.

The reason I mentioned Colorado School of Mines is precisely because it would be one of the elite schools in any division.

Since the US News Rankings were mentioned:

Colorado School of Mines
- #29 Top Public National Universities
- #75 Top National Universities
Other schools with similar rankings: Virginia Tech, Worcester Polytechnic Institute , UMass, American, Stevens Institute, Texas A&M, Iowa, Baylor

Truman State
- #1 Top Public Regional Universities, Midwest
- #8 Top Regional Universities, Midwest
Other schools with similar rankings: Northern Iowa, Drake, John Carroll, Grand Valley State, North Central, Evansville
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#23 WRfan1

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:23 AM

That's funny you say that because I most often hear parents saying they will only send their kids to D1 or D3 schools.

Often hear something along the lines of:
"If you're not playing D1 and on a full ride, you're to go to the best school you can and get a quality education."

 

Two reasons come up quite a bit in the kids and parents I've spoken with - 1) Cost.  D2 and NAIA are more often public, and cheaper, and 2) D3's aren't allowed to offer scholarship money and kids know that - a little more prestige with schools that don't force you to pay your own way.  



#24 WRfan1

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:25 AM

Your post is so wrong in so many ways.  

Not where I live. May be a different deal in Ohio.



#25 Pinnum

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 05:03 AM

Two reasons come up quite a bit in the kids and parents I've spoken with - 1) Cost.  D2 and NAIA are more often public, and cheaper, and 2) D3's aren't allowed to offer scholarship money and kids know that - a little more prestige with schools that don't force you to pay your own way.


NAIA is almost all private schools. https://en.wikipedia...IA_institutions

D2 is majority public though.

I won't comment on the cost issue since cost is determined individually for each students and individually by each school. For one student, one school, in one division may be more, or less, than for another student or another school in the same division.
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#26 Missourimatman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 09:38 AM

Drury in Springfield, MO added D2 wrestling last year. They have an average ACT score of 26 and are on par with Truman academically, but are smaller and private.

#27 WRfan1

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:23 AM

NAIA is almost all private schools. https://en.wikipedia...IA_institutions

D2 is majority public though.

I won't comment on the cost issue since cost is determined individually for each students and individually by each school. For one student, one school, in one division may be more, or less, than for another student or another school in the same division.

Many are, but its regional.  Out West (NW), So. Oregon, East. Ore, Evergreen, Oregon Tech,  Montana St. Northern, Montana Tech, Montanta Western, Lewis & Clark State, and are all public. I don't think there are any public D3 schools, but could be wrong.  Again, there is also a perception among the athletes that I talk who who are getting recruited that D3 is basically sports for kids that can afford to pay to play, and view it as a step below the others, whether it is or not.   From what I've seen it is a step down, but it sounds like that isn't the case most other places. 



#28 Billyhoyle

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 12:20 PM

Many are, but its regional.  Out West (NW), So. Oregon, East. Ore, Evergreen, Oregon Tech,  Montana St. Northern, Montana Tech, Montanta Western, Lewis & Clark State, and are all public. I don't think there are any public D3 schools, but could be wrong.  Again, there is also a perception among the athletes that I talk who who are getting recruited that D3 is basically sports for kids that can afford to pay to play, and view it as a step below the others, whether it is or not.   From what I've seen it is a step down, but it sounds like that isn't the case most other places. 

There are scholarships in D3.  They are just often disguised as being "academic."  And it is not "pay to play."  It's pay to attend a college that is worth paying for while also competing in athletics.  NAIA will give you a partial scholarship and make you still pay an overpriced (albeit reduced) tuition.  



#29 jchapman

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 03:08 PM

There are scholarships in D3.  They are just often disguised as being "academic."  And it is not "pay to play."  It's pay to attend a college that is worth paying for while also competing in athletics.  NAIA will give you a partial scholarship and make you still pay an overpriced (albeit reduced) tuition.

I've never met anyone who played a sport at an NAIA school who would have even thought of attending that school if it wasn't for the sport.
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#30 FATMANROLL

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Posted 13 April 2018 - 11:21 PM

I don't think there are any public D3 schools, but could be wrong. 


Small Wisconsin state schools are primarily D3

#31 mpg190

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:14 AM

I actually started out in d3 and transferred to an NAIA school. The d3 school i went to i just felt like it wasnt the right place. Very small, the athletics and coaching were just not what i expected, not as structured and serious. Also it was like double the cost. The NAIA school was a better fit for me. We competed at a higher level, had scholarship money, got better equipment, free shoes work out gear etc, more people, different social environment. I think most of it depends on what you are looking for. Im sure Wartburg, Augsburg etc were a diffrent d3 experience than i had. I really enjoyed my NAIA experience.

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#32 Swayz

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 03:28 PM

I've never met anyone who played a sport at an NAIA school who would have even thought of attending that school if it wasn't for the sport.

 

 

LOL.  Lot of truth in this, but I think across the board if it weren't for athletics most kids wouldn't go to college.  I think if we had a national rec league and a national intramural league for people after high school,  most people would just work a day job and wrestle and not go into debt....same with other sports. 



#33 FATMANROLL

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:59 PM

LOL.  Lot of truth in this, but I think across the board if it weren't for athletics most kids wouldn't go to college. 


Come on Swayz. You must live a sheltered life if you believe this. The number of regular students dwarf the number of student athletes by a huge number.

#34 TobusRex

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:34 PM

Sports fans, or limited to wrestling, are kind of dumb. They equate DI status with academic status.

 

I don't know anybody who thinks that way.


Edited by TobusRex, 15 April 2018 - 11:34 PM.


#35 Warren_Haynes

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 12:22 AM

Drury in Springfield, MO added D2 wrestling last year. They have an average ACT score of 26 and are on par with Truman academically, but are smaller and private.

waaaaaaay more expensive too



#36 Tofurky

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:22 AM

There are scholarships in D3.  They are just often disguised as being "academic."  And it is not "pay to play."  It's pay to attend a college that is worth paying for while also competing in athletics.  NAIA will give you a partial scholarship and make you still pay an overpriced (albeit reduced) tuition.  

 

If you know of colleges and universities within Division III who take part in this, then by all means, please name them.

 

I can speak directly to this and say that where I work students receive the same merit-based scholarships regardless if you are a student-athlete, play the flugelhorn, want to become and accountant or have plans for med school. I cannot speak for other institutions, but at this small D3, we do it by the book.



#37 WillieBoy

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 02:52 AM

LOL.  Lot of truth in this, but I think across the board if it weren't for athletics most kids wouldn't go to college.  I think if we had a national rec league and a national intramural league for people after high school,  most people would just work a day job and wrestle and not go into debt....same with other sports. 

 

Most kids?

 

Those who go to College for sports are in the minority. Compare all the sports programs compared to the total enrollment. I don't think "most kids" even includes those who attend the sporting events while in school.



#38 Pinnum

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:40 AM

I've never met anyone who played a sport at an NAIA school who would have even thought of attending that school if it wasn't for the sport.


Yes, college athletes tend to consider college sports when selecting the school where they will compete in college sports.

I have known many athletes at many schools of all levels and quality and almost universally they would not have considered the school if not for the sport.

Wrestlers at Cornell would not have considered attending the school if the school didn't have a wrestling program. That is not an indication of the quality of the school or of NCAA D1. They simply would have considered another quality school and wrestling program. The same is true of wrestlers at Cal Poly, NDSU, Clarion, SIU-Edwardsville and basically every other school.

It is a very small fraction of college athletes, and typically at the non-scholarship junior college level that decide on the school first and then consider competing in a sport.

Wrestling is probably one of the least likely sports for people to casually decide to join the team.
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#39 Billyhoyle

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:25 AM

If you know of colleges and universities within Division III who take part in this, then by all means, please name them.

I can speak directly to this and say that where I work students receive the same merit-based scholarships regardless if you are a student-athlete, play the flugelhorn, want to become and accountant or have plans for med school. I cannot speak for other institutions, but at this small D3, we do it by the book.

Good for your small D3 school.

#40 Billyhoyle

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 06:28 AM

Yes, college athletes tend to consider college sports when selecting the school where they will compete in college sports.

I have known many athletes at many schools of all levels and quality and almost universally they would not have considered the school if not for the sport.

Wrestlers at Cornell would not have considered attending the school if the school didn't have a wrestling program. That is not an indication of the quality of the school or of NCAA D1. They simply would have considered another quality school and wrestling program. The same is true of wrestlers at Cal Poly, NDSU, Clarion, SIU-Edwardsville and basically every other school.

It is a very small fraction of college athletes, and typically at the non-scholarship junior college level that decide on the school first and then consider competing in a sport.

Wrestling is probably one of the least likely sports for people to casually decide to join the team.

His point is clearly that nobody is lining up to go to NAIA schools like they are Cornell (or many other places in D1 or D3). I would have absolutely considered attending the university that I attended if they didn’t offer wrestling.




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