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ConnorsDad

Why NAIA... D2 or D3?

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As much as I hate asking for help, my son is asking me for some answers and I am turning to you guys because I don't know. He is a junior and is being recruited but has some questions about the various divisions, competition, etc. So here goes.

 

1. How much better is the avg. D1 school vs. a good D2 one? D2 vs D3?

2. Is NAIA about like D2?

3. Are the time requirements the same regardless of the division?

4. I read an article last year where it said Wartburg had the best recruiting class outside of D1? Could they compete in D2?

5. What about overall enjoyment? Do you think a lot of kids would have a better college experience if they went to a better division 2/3 program rather than a lower-tier division 1?

 

Thanks in advance for any information you can give me. I want to give him as much guidance as I can but I want him to make the decision.

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What is your kid interested in studying/pursuing as a career? What are his grades/sat? There’s a chance he quits wrestling in college so my advice is don’t let wrestling dictate the choice if he isn’t going D1.

 

 

In terms of D3/d2/naia, his experience will greatly vary depending on which school it is. You can’t sunmarize an entire division. So I’d think more in terms of individual schools than divisions.

 

Competition wise it’s scattered. Some of the best guys in D3/D2/NAIA will be competitive with D1 guys. Most won’t be though. On average D2 is tougher than D3, but Augsburg and Wartburg would compete just fine in D2.

Edited by Billyhoyle

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Initial eligibility for D1 & D2 are determined by the NCAA clearing house. There is not a whole lot of difference between the two. D3 and NAIA let the schools determine eligibility but there are standards that have to be met.

 

9.9 scholarships in D1 (not all schools are fully funded)

9 scholarships in D2 same as above

No Athletic money in D3. Most schools have aid packages but no special consideration for athletes

NAIA has much greater freedom with athletic money and it varies considerably from school to school

 

Time requirements vary more school to school and coach to coach.

 

When it comes to enjoyment, ask any kid who just won a title in D2 D3 or NAIA if they are enjoying the moment. Ask the same question to the last place finisher in the EWLS or SOCONS

 

Most non D1 wrestlers don't eat, sleep and breath wrestling. The majority of the champs do but wrestling does not need to consume an athletes life to have success.

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Select a school based upon your son’s career goal. Wrestling should be the least important criteria. D3 offers a much better overall educational experience. Good luck.

Please explain and define why D3 offers a better educational experience.

Edited by FATMANROLL

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If your son isn't offered money to wrestle, don't encourage him to waste his time. There are far more productive ways to spend your time in college than training 30 hours per week for free. Study, network, volunteer, get a part time job, socialize responsibly. Those are things that will help him grow as a person.

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The right level is different for everyone, but the worst reason go D1 is just so you can say you went D1. I've known and heard of guys for whom that was their big reason. Most of them ended up quitting wrestling.

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If your son isn't offered money to wrestle, don't encourage him to waste his time. There are far more productive ways to spend your time in college than training 30 hours per week for free. Study, network, volunteer, get a part time job, socialize responsibly. Those are things that will help him grow as a person.

 

 

The right level is different for everyone, but the worst reason go D1 is just so you can say you went D1. I've known and heard of guys for whom that was their big reason. Most of them ended up quitting wrestling.

 

while i assuredly do respect these opinions, and believe they do hold value, i will disagree with them for the sake of diversity of thought and values.

 

perhaps the best take-away i got from wrestling was the confidence that comes from going toe-to-toe with awesome athletes, even when getting my ass handed to me.  ESPECIALLY, i might say, when i got my ass handed to me.  it's the biggest takeaway i want my son to get, too.  because more valuable than learning how to kick asses (which is, of course, a virtuous pursuit) is learning how to take a beating, knowing you'll survive it, and never being intimidated about seeking the best competition.  once we know we can handle the worst ass beatings, then adapt and triumph, we can face anything without wasting energy on worry.  that's how we live this life the best.  you don't have to become an all-american, or even all-conference, or even a .500 wrestler to learn this.  of course, often those better wrestlers might have learned it quicker and better.  this confidence can carry over into academia, leadership, business, relationships, and beyond.  i cannot tell you how many times in life i can i've remembered the chin set i learned in wrestling practice, reminding myself "only two more years, and i'll never feel guilty for not going through this again,"  and applied it to whatever struggle i was facing.  it's made me appreciate the awesome power of commitment.

 

d1 can be worth pursuing, even for it's own sake, whether someone thinks you're worth their scholly money or not, whether anyone else thinks you belong there or not.  proving to yourself you belong there, over the course of 4 or 5 challenging years, can be an invaluable experience.

 

or, you can drink four or five nights a week, hope to score a threesome, smoke dope and float around sitting crosslegged with the hippies.  whatever floats your boat.

 

for some reason, this value reminds me of a signature that used to float around on these forums.  i've long forgotten whose it was, but it was a quote from al swearigen (true blood, or something?), and i've always liked it:

 

"pain or damage don't end the world. or despair, or f***ing beatings. the world ends when you're dead. until then, you got more punishment in store. stand it like a man... and give some back."

Edited by John Coctostan

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As much as I hate asking for help, my son is asking me for some answers and I am turning to you guys because I don't know. He is a junior and is being recruited but has some questions about the various divisions, competition, etc. So here goes.

 

1. How much better is the avg. D1 school vs. a good D2 one? D2 vs D3?

2. Is NAIA about like D2?

3. Are the time requirements the same regardless of the division?

4. I read an article last year where it said Wartburg had the best recruiting class outside of D1? Could they compete in D2?

5. What about overall enjoyment? Do you think a lot of kids would have a better college experience if they went to a better division 2/3 program rather than a lower-tier division 1?

 

Thanks in advance for any information you can give me. I want to give him as much guidance as I can but I want him to make the decision.

Don't overlook junior college as an option.  The first 2 years of college you are taking the same classes anywhere.   There are a lot of 2 year schools that are super cheap to go to and will prepare you for the next level (not all jucos are created equal).  I have coached NAIA and NJCAA level and I wrestled DII level.   I watched the DIII finals this year,  and the wrestling has more heart than some wrestling I have seen.  NAIA up to 12 wrestlers can qualify post season, so if a stud is in your weight, you both can qualify.    Feel free to shoot me a private message and I can give you my number and talk with you all about it.  Lot to evaluate too like distance from home,  schedule and so on.  Smaller schools (non DI)  you will see Opens on schedule more often.  DI level not on the schedule, but guys not varsity go on their own typically.   So if you want matches,  I would go the lower levels.  But so many catches on so many ways.  Some schools are 8 hours from the nearest competitor.   Spread wings and find a place that values competition and education even more.  

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If your son isn't offered money to wrestle, don't encourage him to waste his time. There are far more productive ways to spend your time in college than training 30 hours per week for free. Study, network, volunteer, get a part time job, socialize responsibly. Those are things that will help him grow as a person.

By going D3 the athlete will be afforded the opportunity to participate in the activities mentioned. I do think being on a college wrestling team also provides worthwhile experiences. However when the commitment to the team takes away time from academics, appropriate social activities, and other worthwhile endeavors, then wrestling is a negative. The time required for most D1 programs definitely makes wrestling at least equal with academics. Unfortunately some D1 athletes put their sport over academics. That is why D3 is a better overall educational experience.

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By going D3 the athlete will be afforded the opportunity to participate in the activities mentioned. I do think being on a college wrestling team also provides worthwhile experiences. However when the commitment to the team takes away time from academics, appropriate social activities, and other worthwhile endeavors, then wrestling is a negative. The time required for most D1 programs definitely makes wrestling at least equal with academics. Unfortunately some D1 athletes put their sport over academics. That is why D3 is a better overall educational experience.

It's not that he is afraid to work. Obviously he couldnt have accomplished what he did without it. But, I also think he's realistic, that unless he decides to go to Northern Michigan, his wrestling career will end after college and he realizes he needs to get an education as well. Are there any time constraints on amount of practice time like there are in division 1 football? Again, thanks in advance for the info

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If your son isn't offered money to wrestle, don't encourage him to waste his time. There are far more productive ways to spend your time in college than training 30 hours per week for free. Study, network, volunteer, get a part time job, socialize responsibly. Those are things that will help him grow as a person.

 

Most all of those things are included, and vital aspects of a top wrestling program (community service, part-time jobs are usually always allowed, socializing responsibly, networking opportunities/job fairs, ample study time, etc.. Not to mention the values, time management skills, and relationships built through wrestling in college.

 

Not everyone is a scholarship student-athlete out of the gate (not saying your son is not), but like anything in life, if you work for it scholarships are usually given. Also, like Swayz said- the NJCAA route is not the biggest negative. Knock out your gen eds. and move on to a four year school to focus on your degree program.

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My friend's son went to a highly (for wrestling) rated Jr. College.  He didn't like it there.  The coaches apparently were jerks.  He was a good HS wrestler and wanted to continue.  Well he quit.  Took a year off, went to another school, got the bug again.  This time he decided on a D2 school because it had an engineering program.  He did very well and was ranked #1 in his weight class until he got hurt his last season and in his first 2 seasons did very well.  He thoroughly enjoyed the D2 experience both in wrestling and academics.  He now has a good job and helps with a local HS.  I'd call that a win. 

 

Just another anecdote to swirl around in the bucket.

 

mspart

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Time requirements vary more school to school and coach to coach.

 

 

Minor correction/addendum

 

DI and DII have limits on training, but not too crazy of limits

DIII has a more strict and lower limit on training, meaning they have X number of hours they can practice and such. 

NAIA has no rules they can technically have full full practice every day of the week.

 

Someone that likes to read rule books can give you more details on the time commitments.

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DIII does not have hourly limits on training. The limit in DIII is that you can only have official practice with the coaching staff during the season from October 10 through the NCAA Championships. During that time, the only limit is that athletes must have one day off per week.

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DIII does not have hourly limits on training. The limit in DIII is that you can only have official practice with the coaching staff during the season from October 10 through the NCAA Championships. During that time, the only limit is that athletes must have one day off per week.

Isn't there a limit on the number of practices during the season?

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Minor correction/addendum

 

DI and DII have limits on training, but not too crazy of limits

DIII has a more strict and lower limit on training, meaning they have X number of hours they can practice and such. 

NAIA has no rules they can technically have full full practice every day of the week.

 

Someone that likes to read rule books can give you more details on the time commitments.

 

 

They all have some rule in place of being on the mat though.  You can have "pre season" training. 

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My experience with D1 was that off season was harder than in season as far as work out commitment.  My experience with  D3 was the off season was more off.  Things were available but not "required".  Probably varies greatly with school.  I also feel that to be truly great at the D1 level, your commitment needs to be to wrestling, school second.  Yes there are outliers, but wrestling D1 (well) and the hard sciences is a tough task.

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My experience with D1 was that off season was harder than in season as far as work out commitment.  My experience with  D3 was the off season was more off.  Things were available but not "required".  Probably varies greatly with school.  I also feel that to be truly great at the D1 level, your commitment needs to be to wrestling, school second.  Yes there are outliers, but wrestling D1 (well) and the hard sciences is a tough task.

 

Some DI schools I just shake my head when I recruited against them for smaller college levels,  you would have a kid go to a DI and it wasn't uncommon for us to say..."well, feel free to contact us if things don't work out."    

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