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Jon_Kozak

Gable at the US Open...

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We went down this road and you learned the phenom who was wrestling boys made the Olympic trials final by age 19 and on his first effort and ahead of all the veterans, NCAA champs (including a 4 timer), Hodge winners, world teamers, etc, with the lone exception of Molinaro.  

Actually that particular phenom had been competing on the senior circuit and already had some impressive wins against senior men.

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If you came from a couple months in the future and told me one of the wrestlers ranked 6th in the April polls just made the world team, I'd bet heavily that it was Gable. But if you told me Gable got teched by all the top guys, that wouldn't surprise me either. There is super high variance... No one knows how he'll stack up against the best right now. But I wouldn't put a ceiling on him because his upside is obviously super high.

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The expectations for Gable are incredibly high. Here’s a guy who hasn’t wrestled a college match and we are seriously asking whether he will take out a world bronze medalist and 2x NCAA champ who didn’t win 3x because Kyle Snyder took him out. To me it’s a testament to how good he is. He’s miles ahead of where he needs to be to become one of the greatest ever from the US. The question is, should he go senior? It’s not clear.

 

My view is that at his stage he should keep winning. Anthony Valencia is the cautionary tale of what happened when you get ahead of yourself. He was on the junior team one year, went deep and didn’t place. The next year he goes senior and takes fourth in the US Open and hasn’t won much of anything since. Meanwhile Mark Hall went juniors his first year and didn’t place. Goes back next time and wins it. Goes again and wins it. Now consider Sadulaev.

 

S jumped rom Cadet to Seniors and won it all. But presumably this was worked out with his coaches and Putin to give Russia the best chance and has he not been ready he would have gone junior. With all that said I think Gable should and will do what Fix is apparently doing. Wrestle in the senior open. If he wins keep going. If not take the bye to the Junior WTT. Keep winning on the world stage.

 

Predictions:

 

Gable will not make the senior team but will impress the same way Cael did his first go around almost beating Les Gutches but then taking sixth (I think, point is he didn’t roar back and take third). Here are some things I’m keeping in mind:

 

1. Gable won juniors at the youngest age possible and the highest weight possible. That means a lot but juniors are variable from year to year. Many junior winners quickly go on to senior success but not always. So far I don’t know of any or Gables Juniors competition who have achieved much at the senior level.

 

2. Fix is a case and point. He teched his way through junior worlds and beat Nato to make the U23 team and then flatlined. It’s a single tournament but shows some version of the road ahead. Fix is a phenom who did as well as anyone ever has at junior worlds and still couldn’t get it done at the next level. At least on one day.

 

3. Gable did not look other worldly against Kerkvliet. He won. Wasn’t in danger of losing but the guy repeatedly got to his legs. A young and athletic 220 pounder showed Gable can be had. A more seasoned guy would have been able to finish. Gable is not invincible.

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Actually that particular phenom had been competing on the senior circuit and already had some impressive wins against senior men.

 

Yes that's a good point and yet the retired poster demanded we do not speak of him regarding the contenders at 65 kg since he had never won anything.    So those key wins you mention (including against our Olympic rep) meant little or nothing more to this individual than the HS boys he had beaten.     Gable too has defeated college heavies and won open tournaments.    This is a case of retired poster either not knowing how to spot elite talent at a young age or just plain being a hater.   I believe it's the former.   

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first year cadet world champ... second year cadet world champ... junior world champ while still cadet eligible...

 

who else has that resume in america?

nobody...

 

arguably the best footwork in all of american wrestling... and competing at the weakest athletic weight... if gable doesnt win the open i will probably be somewhat disappointed...

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We went down this road and you learned the phenom who was wrestling boys made the Olympic trials final by age 19 and on his first effort and ahead of all the veterans, NCAA champs (including a 4 timer), Hodge winners, world teamers, etc, with the lone exception of Molinaro.  

 

Again.....your guy didn't win.  Close, but not quite.

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Yes that's a good point and yet the retired poster demanded we do not speak of him regarding the contenders at 65 kg since he had never won anything.    So those key wins you mention (including against our Olympic rep) meant little or nothing more to this individual than the HS boys he had beaten.     Gable too has defeated college heavies and won open tournaments.    This is a case of retired poster either not knowing how to spot elite talent at a young age or just plain being a hater.   I believe it's the former.   

 

Putting words in my mouth again, CT?  Who said anything about Gable not being talented?  He's an incredible talent, but he's been wrestling with boys.  Kind of like my point about AP never being punched by a grown man, and in his first fight, he was punched by a grown man and what happened?  

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Putting words in my mouth again, CT?  Who said anything about Gable not being talented?  He's an incredible talent, but he's been wrestling with boys.  Kind of like my point about AP never being punched by a grown man, and in his first fight, he was punched by a grown man and what happened?  

 

You just don't have the eye to spot elite talent at a young age.  You had no clue Pico was capable of doing so well and I can understand that.   You just couldn't see it.    Most can't.    You're not very different from most other than in you wanting to silence those who can see it.   

 

The guy who's talent level you couldn't see ended up in the Olympic trials final.   Every other guy (excluding Molinaro) who you could see their talent, placed behind him.  Lets give it time, I expect you'll eventually learn to spot talent earlier than you're currently capable of.    Right now, this is just who you are.  

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You just don't have the eye to spot elite talent at a young age.  You had no clue Pico was capable of doing so well and I can understand that.   You just couldn't see it.    Most can't.    You're not very different from most other than in you wanting to silence those who can see it.   

 

The guy who's talent level you couldn't see ended up in the Olympic trials final.   Every other guy (excluding Molinaro) who you could see their talent, placed behind him.  Lets give it time, I expect you'll eventually learn to spot talent earlier than you're currently capable of.    Right now, this is just who you are.  

 

You got me...I am unable to spot elite talent. 

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You got me...I am unable to spot elite talent. 

 

Not at an early age, no absolutely not.    How you blew it so badly on Pico  is just dumbfounding.   Were it left up to you, talking about the Olympic trials finalist would have been off limits unless he won the Olympic Games.    I haven't seen anyone miss as badly as you did  on Pico, ever on these boards.    Some on this board saw it by the time he was 16.        

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The expectations for Gable are incredibly high. Here’s a guy who hasn’t wrestled a college match and we are seriously asking whether he will take out a world bronze medalist and 2x NCAA champ who didn’t win 3x because Kyle Snyder took him out. To me it’s a testament to how good he is. He’s miles ahead of where he needs to be to become one of the greatest ever from the US. The question is, should he go senior? It’s not clear.

My view is that at his stage he should keep winning. Anthony Valencia is the cautionary tale of what happened when you get ahead of yourself. He was on the junior team one year, went deep and didn’t place. The next year he goes senior and takes fourth in the US Open and hasn’t won much of anything since. Meanwhile Mark Hall went juniors his first year and didn’t place. Goes back next time and wins it. Goes again and wins it. Now consider Sadulaev.

S jumped rom Cadet to Seniors and won it all. But presumably this was worked out with his coaches and Putin to give Russia the best chance and has he not been ready he would have gone junior. With all that said I think Gable should and will do what Fix is apparently doing. Wrestle in the senior open. If he wins keep going. If not take the bye to the Junior WTT. Keep winning on the world stage.

Predictions:

Gable will not make the senior team but will impress the same way Cael did his first go around almost beating Les Gutches but then taking sixth (I think, point is he didn’t roar back and take third). Here are some things I’m keeping in mind:

1. Gable won juniors at the youngest age possible and the highest weight possible. That means a lot but juniors are variable from year to year. Many junior winners quickly go on to senior success but not always. So far I don’t know of any or Gables Juniors competition who have achieved much at the senior level.

2. Fix is a case and point. He teched his way through junior worlds and beat Nato to make the U23 team and then flatlined. It’s a single tournament but shows some version of the road ahead. Fix is a phenom who did as well as anyone ever has at junior worlds and still couldn’t get it done at the next level. At least on one day.

3. Gable did not look other worldly against Kerkvliet. He won. Wasn’t in danger of losing but the guy repeatedly got to his legs. A young and athletic 220 pounder showed Gable can be had. A more seasoned guy would have been able to finish. Gable is not invincible.

Gable has wrestled college matches. He won a college open early last season.

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An interesting thing about Gable is that he is the first wrestler that I can recall who has gone completely unbeaten in high school competition, both in-season and out of season. All the other top high school wrestlers have taken a loss somewhere, at some point but Stevenson hasn't lost since he was 13 wrestling the Minnesota High School state tournament, at least that I'm aware of (correct me if I'm wrong).

 

All the other great took a loss or two in high school at some point.

 

Mark Hall lost several times to Bo Nickal, once at Jr. Worlds and once to A. Valencia.

Kyle Snyder split four matches with Jaden Cox and lost at Jr. worlds to Gogaev as a Senior. 

Spencer Lee lost to Fix twice and Desanto (smaller than Fix and torn ACL vs. Desanto but still). 

Aaron Pico had Heil and several losses at Junior Worlds (and of course many losses on the senior circuit)

Daton Fix was beaten at Super 32 by Karam, split with Suriano and took some losses at age group world events. 

Logan Stieber lost to David Taylor, twice to Tony Ramos in freestyle in one day once, and several at the senior level of course. 

Etc. Etc. 

 

Of course, you can argue that the talent pool is much thinner at heavyweight at high school, and you'd certainly be right about that- but winning consistently at the World Level at Heavyweight in age group wrestling where your opponents are 2-3 years younger than you is completely unprecedented.   Consider how rare it is to see a freshman win state at heavyweight in high school (a real freshman, not of the 17 year old freshman variety).... I bet there are less than five we can name who have won in top quality states (Nevills brothers and), so I think that puts in perspective how freakish it is to be dominating at the World Level giving up 2-3 years of age in a weight class where age makes a bigger difference. 

 

That said, I think he's a year or two away from being able to knock off any of the big dogs at this weight class- Gwiz, Coon, Zach Rey etc.  I see him pushing those guys and making them work for the win, but getting a W seems like a stretch at 17 for even this Gable.  Against any in the next tier below he stands a good chance to win imo. 

 

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Pretty fair write up^^^^

 

I'm not sure where I have him at this point at the Open, but I'm going to say top 5.   I need to see how it all looks once the bracket is set.   I can see him knocking off one of the big dogs, but I'm not sure he can go on a run and win the whole thing.    I'm excited to see him give it a go though and I'll be there taking it in live.    

 

Like most others, I'm interested om how Fix does at 57 kg in what I believe is his first senior event.    

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Gable has wrestled college matches. He won a college open early last season.

I know but he didn’t wrestle anyone at the AA level. It’s clear he’s already capable of making a big splash at the ncaa level. I’m suggesting he’s not going to beat Gwiz or Coon.

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Pretty fair write up^^^^

 

I'm not sure where I have him at this point at the Open, but I'm going to say top 5. I need to see how it all looks once the bracket is set. I can see him knocking off one of the big dogs, but I'm not sure he can go on a run and win the whole thing. I'm excited to see him give it a go though and I'll be there taking it in live.

 

Like most others, I'm interested om how Fix does at 57 kg in what I believe is his first senior event.

These are great points. Gable’s last loss was in state finals in eight grade at 195 pounds VS a guy he beat earlier that season. Many eight graders don’t wrestle HS (eg Fix and Lee and Suriano). There’s been no real Gable rivalry LIKE fix and Lee and Yianni. It’s been Gable and everyone else.

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I know but he didn’t wrestle anyone at the AA level. It’s clear he’s already capable of making a big splash at the ncaa level. I’m suggesting he’s not going to beat Gwiz or Coon.

 

I agree. I was just pointing out that he has in fact wrestled college level matches.

 

These are great points. Gable’s last loss was in state finals in eight grade at 195 pounds VS a guy he beat earlier that season. Many eight graders don’t wrestle HS (eg Fix and Lee and Suriano). There’s been no real Gable rivalry LIKE fix and Lee and Yianni. It’s been Gable and everyone else.

Fix, Lee and Suriano don't wrestle in states that allow students below 9th grade to compete at the varsity level. Would you be at all shocked if Spencer Lee as an 8th grader defeated Luke Pletcher or Ethan Lizak in 2013 (those years 106 and 113lbs state champions)?

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...I need to see how it all looks ... I'm not sure he can go on a run and win the whole thing.     

 

...Let's see what he does, then we talk.

 

 

Talent Spotting Match of the Week

Round 1:

CT dec. RP: 30-29

 

The fight was dead even according most spectators, but Cletus Tucker claimed to have won decisively. RetiredPoster, on the other hand, appeared to have conceded in a later post. Although the fans saw this as a familiar rope-a-dope tactic, the judges awarded CT the win on criteria. 

 

Stay tuned for Round 2, when we see what happens! 

Round 3 will be an epic debate of the I told you soes!

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Talent Spotting Match of the Week

Round 1:

CT dec. RP: 30-29

 

The fight was dead even according most spectators, but Cletus Tucker claimed to have won decisively. RetiredPoster, on the other hand, appeared to have conceded in a later post. Although the fans saw this as a familiar rope-a-dope tactic, the judges awarded CT the win on criteria. 

 

Stay tuned for Round 2, when we see what happens! 

Round 3 will be an epic debate of the I told you soes!

Very clever!

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I agree. I was just pointing out that he has in fact wrestled college level matches.

 

 

Fix, Lee and Suriano don't wrestle in states that allow students below 9th grade to compete at the varsity level. Would you be at all shocked if Spencer Lee as an 8th grader defeated Luke Pletcher or Ethan Lizak in 2013 (those years 106 and 113lbs state champions)?

Yes I know.

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