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How Can ASU Compete?

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Can we quit drinking the kool-aid about "revenue" sports?  Your bigtime D-I college football program is paying a head coach in the range of 3-8 million, OC and DC at least a million each, 85 scholarships at whatever the yearly price of school (say around $20,000), cost of plane travel, top hotels and meals both at home and on the road, an army of assistants, trainers, grad assistants, statisticians, SID team, tutors, facilities and grounds staff, weight room coaches and staff, etc.  With such mammoth expenses, you better make a bowl game and share TV revenue--most do it just trying to come close to breaking even. As mentioned above, there is a vast difference between revenue and profit.   http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2014/dec/22/jim-moran/moran-says-only-20-colleges-make-profit-sports/

 

Yes, this!!

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Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

Like most elite academic institutions, the average family will pay less to attend Duke than their local state school.

 

Of course, the issue is acceptance. Getting accepted is the hard part but as long as you're accepted and from an average or low income family, paying for college is not a problem at Duke. It is only the high income families that are paying full sticker price to attend the elite private schools.

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Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

Athletes must adhere to the same residency requirements as all students.

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The SEC would go nowhere near the top of the rankings in wrestling. The Capitol One Cup calculates top NCAA athletic programs across all sports and more highly weighs popular sports, and in 2017 the SEC had 1 team in the top 10. And the one team in the top 10 was Alabama who doesn't make the top 10 without football. This year they have 2 of the top 30 halfway through the year. If you looked at the NACDA cup that values every sport the same, then Kentucky and Florida made the top 10 last year but Stanford has been champ of that for over 20 straight years. The bottom line is the football money is not helping the SEC much in existing non-revenue sports right now, so there is no reason to think it would help in a non-revenue sport where they have no history and no recruiting base.

 

Wrestling is largely a regional sport and the SEC is in the wrong region to win at anything approaching a high level.

Agree. The SEC adding wrestling would be nice and you would see success here and there individually but they would have a hard time being competitive with the mid west and north east.

 

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Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

 

Athletes must adhere to the same residency requirements as all students.

Actually ASU does this, along with many other schools.  Its called the WUE.  Doesnt work for east coast schools though.

 

In addition, a very high percentage of wrestlers just redshirt and take the fall quarter below 9 credits and they then become in state residents, assuming they didnt take a full course load in the summer.

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No such guarantee. Until very recently U. of Michigan was in the red in the Big 10 for years even with all the bowl/TV money. Now #4 on your list, the school is sitting on a $240 million athletic debt. http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article/20170226/NEWS/170229865/splitting-audience-could-make-ums-240-million-athletics-debt-a

If the universities are non-profit, then they need to spend all the revenues generated from football, right? I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but maybe that’s why they aren’t showing profits. It might be by design.

 

UM’s $240M athletic debt is probably locked in at a very low interest rate with favorable terms. A lot of athletic departments are taking advantage of low rates to enhance their facilities.

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Agree. The SEC adding wrestling would be nice and you would see success here and there individually but they would have a hard time being competitive with the mid west and north east.

 

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The SEC would have the money to buy the best coaches and student athletes available.  The real question is if they would ever spend that money on wrestling?  Just look at what the SEC is doing in baseball and track & field.

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The SEC would have the money to buy the best coaches and student athletes available.  The real question is if they would ever spend that money on wrestling?  Just look at what the SEC is doing in baseball and track & field.

They have the money for all sports and largely don't spend it.  Baseball is a warm weather sport that in college is almost exclusively the south and the west coast.  The final 16 in last year's college baseball were all south or west coast.  That is the recruiting base and that is who is good in college.  The state leaders for producing current MLB guys are California, Texas, Florida, and then the rest of the south and midwest.  But none of the midwest natives stay home for college because of weather.  So the SEC being good in baseball has nothing to do with football money and everything to do with geography.  This is the same reason the Big 10 is good at wrestling and NCAA lacrosse championships stay in the northeast.  The SEC has as much chance of winning the frozen four as they do the NCAA wrestling tournament.

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If the universities are non-profit, then they need to spend all the revenues generated from football, right? I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but maybe that’s why they aren’t showing profits. It might be by design.

 

UM’s $240M athletic debt is probably locked in at a very low interest rate with favorable terms. A lot of athletic departments are taking advantage of low rates to enhance their facilities.

 

???

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why are athletic scholarships an issue for ASU.... you dont have to be a rocket science to get in... you would think they can get most of their recruits in on academic scholarships

"most" you are kidding, correct?

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Maybe the issue is amount of programs west of the Rockies?   We need to grow the sport more and get schools to add  west of the Rockies in many divisions so travel isn't an issue (or scapegoat to drop a program).   Travel has got to be rough for a lot of the DI's in Arizona, Cal, Oregon and Utah.

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Maybe the issue is amount of programs west of the Rockies?   We need to grow the sport more and get schools to add  west of the Rockies in many divisions so travel isn't an issue (or scapegoat to drop a program).   Travel has got to be rough for a lot of the DI's in Arizona, Cal, Oregon and Utah.

 

Do you mean rough in terms of cost, or rough logistically in terms of time and locations? Because I think the Pac schools at least, are pretty easy to travel to if flying is an option. Fresno State is probably one of the toughest current D1 locations in the west to travel to for a number of reasons.

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ASU admissions standards aren't terribly competitive. I think that is not an unreasonable assumption.

Are they higher than Phoenix University?

 

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why are athletic scholarships an issue for ASU.... you dont have to be a rocket science to get in... you would think they can get most of their recruits in on academic scholarships

 

Other than TOSU, Party U!

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Like most elite academic institutions, the average family will pay less to attend Duke than their local state school.

 

Of course, the issue is acceptance. Getting accepted is the hard part but as long as you're accepted and from an average or low income family, paying for college is not a problem at Duke. It is only the high income families that are paying full sticker price to attend the elite private schools.

 

Wow, someone that knows.  

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They have the money for all sports and largely don't spend it.  Baseball is a warm weather sport that in college is almost exclusively the south and the west coast.  The final 16 in last year's college baseball were all south or west coast.  That is the recruiting base and that is who is good in college.  The state leaders for producing current MLB guys are California, Texas, Florida, and then the rest of the south and midwest.  But none of the midwest natives stay home for college because of weather.  So the SEC being good in baseball has nothing to do with football money and everything to do with geography.  This is the same reason the Big 10 is good at wrestling and NCAA lacrosse championships stay in the northeast.  The SEC has as much chance of winning the frozen four as they do the NCAA wrestling tournament.

 

On Baseball I am in a State where one of the three most promoted names is Roger Maris. (Lawrence Welk and Teddy Roosevelt are the other two).

Two seasons here: Winter... and winter is coming.

 

HS baseball games cancelled the past two weeks because the field was still frozen. 31 degrees at game time with winter storm predictions cancelled the games two weeks ago. The local team was finally able to get on the field this past Friday - the only field open in the State so far and due to the hard work of two main volunteers who cleared snow early and did a lot of infield work so even though the ground is still frozen the warm weather(50's and even 63 one day) had the top layer ready to play. Only playable field in the State.

 

On the other hand, North Dakota produces more ice Hockey players than Texas or Arizona.

 

Contrast these kids who have 4-6 months total each year to play baseball outside with full year access. A lot like wrestling where in Pennsylvania compared to Alabama. Different mindset and different emphasis.

 

ASU should compete well if the coaching staff can build on their star as the draw for now. The campus is beautiful. Winter weather is non-existent. It is close enough to drive to if you want it. A lot of reasons for a kid to attend.

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ASU admissions standards aren't terribly competitive. I think that is not an unreasonable assumption.

 

And what does that have to do with academic scholarships?

 

What percent of ASU students receive full ride academic scholarships and what percent receive 50% academic scholarships?

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ASU admissions standards aren't terribly competitive. I think that is not an unreasonable assumption.

 

 

ASU has a high acceptance rate. They let as many students in as want to attend. However the school is quite competitive. Several years ago there was a review of the complete course catalog with private industry and many of thanks worthless courses were dumped.

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And what does that have to do with academic scholarships?

What percent of ASU students receive full ride academic scholarships and what percent receive 50% academic scholarships?

They give out a lot of aid. In state students with a 30 ACT pay no tuition. My daughter got a 32 and got half room and board as well.

 

A friends daughter is in the business school, paying less as an out of state from CA than they would have paid at UCLA.

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Other than TOSU, Party U!

Ohio State is one of the hardest colleges to get into in the state.  75% of entering students score 27 or above on the ACT; 25% score 31 or above.   

 

In the Big Ten, only NW and Michigan have more rigorous standards for the ACT.  NW is 31/34 and Mich is 29/33.  

 

Of course, all bets are off for star athletes.

 

 

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