Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
gobraves101905

How Can ASU Compete?

Recommended Posts

This should be a lesson for coaches.  Do not bring up race, religion, or sexual orientation with your athletes.  If they bring it up, do not engage.  Be respectful of their beliefs, as crazy as they might be (e.g. not believing in evolution).  

 

People have extremely thin skin, and in a professional environment you are held responsible for offending these people. The firing was absolutely justified given the way the world now works.  A wrestling program is the last place you want causing student protests/problems for the athletic department.   

 

 

Are they higher than Phoenix University?

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

 

It's the University of Phoenix...stop disrespecting a a top notch school....GO COPIERS!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is true some guys have definately under performed, Anthony Valencia being the biggest. Maruca seemed to get a bad deal this year. Bennick really hurt but supposedly his money allowed them to get Milhoff, who really disappointed. Naser maybe could have stolen some team points at nationals, but not really expected to AA. Raimo and  Chlebove if they red shirt, will never see the mat with Zahid. Too many years between top recruits and not enough to fill the gaps. Too many completely dead weight classes. Maybe Courtney and Demison can step in and earn some points

 

Also, speaking of scholarships. The first big class will still be on the books when guys like Teemer, Raimo and Chlebove all hit campus. So why have the gaps not been filled sooner? Where is the money coming from for these 3? And where has that money been?

Edited by gobraves101905

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They give out a lot of aid. In state students with a 30 ACT pay no tuition. My daughter got a 32 and got half room and board as well.

 

A friends daughter is in the business school, paying less as an out of state from CA than they would have paid at UCLA.

that's true a lot of places if you shop around.  All 3 of mine went out of state, saved money vs going in state.  Point is though what's the percentage?  Buy saying "most" above that means the majority of wrestlers could get academic scholarships, and to be effective that mean it needs to be the majority of wrestlers that are good enough and can attract away from programs offering athletic scholarships.  I just doubt that a majority, plus again there are other state universities with similar academic options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

that's true a lot of places if you shop around.  All 3 of mine went out of state, saved money vs going in state.  Point is though what's the percentage?  Buy saying "most" above that means the majority of wrestlers could get academic scholarships, and to be effective that mean it needs to be the majority of wrestlers that are good enough and can attract away from programs offering athletic scholarships.  I just doubt that a majority, plus again there are other state universities with similar academic options.

 

Agreed,  I was just giving some anecdotal information. Not certain how many D1 caliber wrestlers can score a 30+  on the ACT, but wrestlers tend to be a lot smarter than FB and BB players (as if that is hard). 

 

The 9.9 scholarship limit is also something to consider.  Very few guys will get a guaranteed 4 (or 5) year scholarship. Coaches need to juggle the current team with the promising backups as well as the redshirt class. That is a lot of guys to split the 9.9 scholarships on. For those who can qualify for aid, that makes life a lot easier for the coach. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I go to ASU and if you want to slack off and breeze through while getting a degree in something then you can.  I'm 90% done with my degree and there are people in some of my classes who still can't spell or structure a paragraph properly.  Not that our professors aren't doing them any favors, one of my final exams this semester we had 2 in class reviews of the questions that would be on the final and got to choose the questions that would be on it.  Oh and the final was online and obviously open note/book.  On the other hand if you want to go to Barrett which is the honors college, you can and they actually have some high standards.  But for most of the rest of classes at ASU you pretty much just have to show up.  One class was in person but all of the assignments were done online, and every assignment was a multiple choice and you got 3 tries to get each question right.  I did my entire semester's worth of work in about 2 hours.  Final exam was the same.  I never found anything so absurdly easy at any other college I went to.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I go to ASU and if you want to slack off and breeze through while getting a degree in something then you can. I'm 90% done with my degree and there are people in some of my classes who still can't spell or structure a paragraph properly. Not that our professors aren't doing them any favors, one of my final exams this semester we had 2 in class reviews of the questions that would be on the final and got to choose the questions that would be on it. Oh and the final was online and obviously open note/book. On the other hand if you want to go to Barrett which is the honors college, you can and they actually have some high standards. But for most of the rest of classes at ASU you pretty much just have to show up. One class was in person but all of the assignments were done online, and every assignment was a multiple choice and you got 3 tries to get each question right. I did my entire semester's worth of work in about 2 hours. Final exam was the same. I never found anything so absurdly easy at any other college I went to.

If you don’t mind me asking, what are you studying?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is true some guys have definately under performed, Anthony Valencia being the biggest. Maruca seemed to get a bad deal this year. Bennick really hurt but supposedly his money allowed them to get Milhoff, who really disappointed. Naser maybe could have stolen some team points at nationals, but not really expected to AA. Raimo and Chlebove if they red shirt, will never see the mat with Zahid. Too many years between top recruits and not enough to fill the gaps. Too many completely dead weight classes. Maybe Courtney and Demison can step in and earn some points

 

Also, speaking of scholarships. The first big class will still be on the books when guys like Teemer, Raimo and Chlebove all hit campus. So why have the gaps not been filled sooner? Where is the money coming from for these 3? And where has that money been?

Do you know if they are still planning on honoring commitment to Chlebove?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it is all relative to expectations, but many are giving A. Valencia a pretty raw deal.  35-7 and 27-10 while making R12 as a Freshman and R16 as a Sophomore is pretty damn good.  Having Joseph, IMar, Massa, Rogers and Walsh in his weight for both years didn't exactly make it easy.  Throw in Z. Jordan and Lewis for his Freshman year and R12 was about where he should have been.

 

This past season, it looked pretty obvious(to me anyway) that the cut was getting to him.  It also didn't help that McFadden came off redshirt and Wick,Marstellar, Marinelli and Lewis all came into the weight.  Simply put, 165 has probably been the most top heavy weight the past 2 years.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it is all relative to expectations, but many are giving A. Valencia a pretty raw deal.  35-7 and 27-10 while making R12 as a Freshman and R16 as a Sophomore is pretty damn good.  Having Joseph, IMar, Massa, Rogers and Walsh in his weight for both years didn't exactly make it easy.  Throw in Z. Jordan and Lewis for his Freshman year and R12 was about where he should have been.

 

This past season, it looked pretty obvious(to me anyway) that the cut was getting to him.  It also didn't help that McFadden came off redshirt and Wick,Marstellar, Marinelli and Lewis all came into the weight.  Simply put, 165 has probably been the most top heavy weight the past 2 years.

The raw deal people are giving him is called expectations.  They exist in every sport and every walk of life.  The expectations on him reflect his accomplishments outside of NCAA wrestling, and they are a compliment to the kind of wrestler he is.  

 

Additionally, he has had a terrible attitude on multiple occasions and thrown punches at least once.  That tends to affect the benefit of the doubt you might have been shown.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The raw deal people are giving him is called expectations.  They exist in every sport and every walk of life.  The expectations on him reflect his accomplishments outside of NCAA wrestling, and they are a compliment to the kind of wrestler he is.  

 

Additionally, he has had a terrible attitude on multiple occasions and thrown punches at least once.  That tends to affect the benefit of the doubt you might have been shown.  

My point was more that the expectations were set much higher than they should have been.  He was given way too high of recruit status based on his freestyle accomplishments.  This surprised me quite a bit because, if you watched him wrestle, he was a suspect mat wrestler and wrestled extremely wide open in neutral.  Add in how deep the 165 field has been the past 2 years and R12 and R16 results aren't near as big of a disappointment as many here portray.

 

I am not arguing his attitude, strictly his accomplishments relative to being defined as "the biggest disappointment".  R12 and R16 is FAR from that in my opinion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My point was more that the expectations were set much higher than they should have been.  He was given way too high of recruit status based on his freestyle accomplishments.  This surprised me quite a bit because, if you watched him wrestle, he was a suspect mat wrestler and wrestled extremely wide open in neutral.  Add in how deep the 165 field has been the past 2 years and R12 and R16 results aren't near as big of a disappointment as many here portray.

 

I am not arguing his attitude, strictly his accomplishments relative to being defined as "the biggest disappointment".  R12 and R16 is FAR from that in my opinion.

The postseason expectations were not just about freestyle accomplishments, but about the 35-7 record you mentioned.  When you are a big recruit and you go 35-7 people put expectations on you.  When you then fail to AA by losing to a guy you crushed twice that year people view that as a disappointment.  He had beaten Womack 18-6 and :40 fall before losing to him in the round of 12.  Losing to guys you've previously beaten is the definition of falling below fair expectations.  And you keep saying it was the tough weight class that stopped him but Womack was an AA at 165 and then went up to 174 and went 0-2 this year.  It wasn't unfair expectations and it wasn't a tough draw in 2017, it was just a bad tournament. 

 

Now everybody but Cael has a bad day, so there's no reason to bash him for a bad weekend, but there's also no reason to pretend he didn't disappoint.  

 

And in 2018 he went backwards.  He had worse wins and worse losses during the regular season before a rough draw ended an NCAA tournament that was just like last year for him.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The postseason expectations were not just about freestyle accomplishments, but about the 35-7 record you mentioned.  When you are a big recruit and you go 35-7 people put expectations on you.  When you then fail to AA by losing to a guy you crushed twice that year people view that as a disappointment.  He had beaten Womack 18-6 and :40 fall before losing to him in the round of 12.  Losing to guys you've previously beaten is the definition of falling below fair expectations.  And you keep saying it was the tough weight class that stopped him but Womack was an AA at 165 and then went up to 174 and went 0-2 this year.  It wasn't unfair expectations and it wasn't a tough draw in 2017, it was just a bad tournament. 

 

Now everybody but Cael has a bad day, so there's no reason to bash him for a bad weekend, but there's also no reason to pretend he didn't disappoint.  

 

And in 2018 he went backwards.  He had worse wins and worse losses during the regular season before a rough draw ended an NCAA tournament that was just like last year for him.  

I don't have an issue with "disappointment".  My issue is with calling it huge or the biggest.  There have been maybe a handful of freshmen in the history of DI wrestling that an R12 finish would have been considered the biggest or a huge disappointment.  He was the 7th seed and fell one match away from wrestling for that seed.

 

As far as 2018 goes, I think the cut has taken a significant toll.  He looked more sucked out and started trying to hit homeruns in the 2nd period often since he often already looked spent.

 

Is it fair to say Valencia hasn't met expectations so far?  Absolutely.  I just can't rationalize calling R12 and R16 finishes in a wrestler's 1st 2 seasons as huge or even the biggest disappointments in DI wrestling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have an issue with "disappointment".  My issue is with calling it huge or the biggest.  There have been maybe a handful of freshmen in the history of DI wrestling that an R12 finish would have been considered the biggest or a huge disappointment.  He was the 7th seed and fell one match away from wrestling for that seed.

 

As far as 2018 goes, I think the cut has taken a significant toll.  He looked more sucked out and started trying to hit homeruns in the 2nd period often since he often already looked spent.

 

Is it fair to say Valencia hasn't met expectations so far?  Absolutely.  I just can't rationalize calling R12 and R16 finishes in a wrestler's 1st 2 seasons as huge or even the biggest disappointments in DI wrestling.

I agree completely.  Fair expectation would have been low AA in 2017.  He just missed that with a single disappointing loss.

 

2018 was a much worse regular season and a tough draw at NCAAs when Rogers lost early.  

 

That's a disappointing career so far but it's all still in his hands how it ends.  But I'm not totally convinced a move up in weight helps him.  Shooting doubles from space is tough against bigger guys, and so is getting off of bottom.  His conditioning may or may not be better but it definitely takes more energy to move bigger guys around.  He might just be a round of 12 level guy. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

83% acceptance rate in 2016

40k per year for room/board/tuition/fees for out of state - lower end of pac12 actually

Top notch coaching staff

Time to stop

 

oh...

And this....

 

and this....asu-pool-party-480x346.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

83% acceptance rate in 2016

40k per year for room/board/tuition/fees for out of state - lower end of pac12 actually

Top notch coaching staff

Time to stop

 

oh...

And this....

 

and this....asu-pool-party-480x346.jpg

looks like a whole bunch of dudes to me

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

83% acceptance rate in 2016

40k per year for room/board/tuition/fees for out of state - lower end of pac12 actually

Top notch coaching staff

Time to stop

 

oh...

And this....

 

and this....asu-pool-party-480x346.jpg

 

 

I can certainly appreciate how some types would find this a selling point, others may not be too swayed by what appears to be the sausage party of sausage parties.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

83% acceptance rate in 2016

40k per year for room/board/tuition/fees for out of state - lower end of pac12 actually

Top notch coaching staff

Time to stop

 

oh...

And this....

 

and this....asu-pool-party-480x346.jpg

 

I'm not sure if it's good or bad I know exactly where that is.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ASU now has one dead weight covered with the possibility of getting on the podium now at 141. Now to get a 197 transfer to get Belshay a much needed RS year.

Only 1 hole plus a returning champ. Not bad.

 

I am a bit concerned about 133

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doubt it.

 

They have two AA caliber 125s. Hopefully one is big enough to bump

Millhof looked like a small 125, doubt he could do anything at 133. On my mind now after the excitement of Mason Smith transferring in,

 

Where does that leave Navonte Demison?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×