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How Can ASU Compete?


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#21 boconnell

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 06:25 AM

In 2015-16 the following monies were distributed to schools in various conferences:

 

Southeastern Conference:  40.4 million (This did not include football bowl money)

Big 12:  23.4

Big 10:  32.4

Pac 12:  25.1

ACC:  26.4

 

The rich truly do get richer.  This is why I say that if the SEC ever decides to get back into sponsoring wrestling they will climb to the top of the national rankings very quickly.  Money has a way of covering up mistakes made by programs.  If a program is on a tight budget that can't afford to make a mistake and lose one of their top student athletes due to a transfer.  Not only does a school need 9.9 wrestling scholarships but they also must have the following in place:

1.  All student athletes that the coach designates will receive an out of state tuition waiver

2.  Many schools offer minority students between 50% and 100% scholarships that would not count against wrestling money.  This helps the school diversity program.

3.  Some schools will work hard to give student athletes first priority with regards to the other various scholarships that they offer.  

The SEC would go nowhere near the top of the rankings in wrestling.  The Capitol One Cup calculates top NCAA athletic programs across all sports and more highly weighs popular sports, and in 2017 the SEC had 1 team in the top 10.  And the one team in the top 10 was Alabama who doesn't make the top 10 without football.  This year they have 2 of the top 30 halfway through the year.  If you looked at the NACDA cup that values every sport the same, then Kentucky and Florida made the top 10 last year but Stanford has been champ of that for over 20 straight years.  The bottom line is the football money is not helping the SEC much in existing non-revenue sports right now, so there is no reason to think it would help in a non-revenue sport where they have no history and no recruiting base.  

 

Wrestling is largely a regional sport and the SEC is in the wrong region to win at anything approaching a high level.


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#22 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 06:26 AM

Football only generates revenue in a handful of institutions.

 

Lol



#23 spladle

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 06:28 AM

Excuse me, I meant only generates profit in a handful of institutions. I used the wrong verbiage.

#24 dabearspack

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 07:41 AM

Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.



#25 PSUMike

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 08:21 AM

Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

 

Duke is also one of the best schools in the country. 

 

Another thing to consider is ASU had that massive recruiting class 3 years ago and aside from Zahid, they haven't really performed as expected. Benick left. Anthony has been a flop thus far. Shields got an AA this year but placed below seed. And Maruca didn't crack the line up behind Tsirtsis. Then you have guys like Tanner Hall who was ranked as high as 3-4 this year and went 2-2 @ NCAAs, Naser went 2 and out, and Millhof went 2-2 despite AAing his last trip to the tournament. I know that core group is only RS sophomores but I don't think anyone would have thought that Benick, Anthony, Kramer, and Maruca would have 1 AA between them to this point. 



#26 pamela

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:02 AM

Can we quit drinking the kool-aid about "revenue" sports?  Your bigtime D-I college football program is paying a head coach in the range of 3-8 million, OC and DC at least a million each, 85 scholarships at whatever the yearly price of school (say around $20,000), cost of plane travel, top hotels and meals both at home and on the road, an army of assistants, trainers, grad assistants, statisticians, SID team, tutors, facilities and grounds staff, weight room coaches and staff, etc.  With such mammoth expenses, you better make a bowl game and share TV revenue--most do it just trying to come close to breaking even. As mentioned above, there is a vast difference between revenue and profit.   http://www.politifac...-profit-sports/

 

Yes, this!!


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#27 Pinnum

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Posted 17 April 2018 - 09:34 AM

Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.


Like most elite academic institutions, the average family will pay less to attend Duke than their local state school.

Of course, the issue is acceptance. Getting accepted is the hard part but as long as you're accepted and from an average or low income family, paying for college is not a problem at Duke. It is only the high income families that are paying full sticker price to attend the elite private schools.
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#28 Plasmodium

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 12:20 AM

Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

Athletes must adhere to the same residency requirements as all students.



#29 jeffr_ideal

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:15 AM

The big money comes from NCAA Basketball and the TV deal with CBS.  $ 1 Billion per year and that is an 8 year contract.  https://www.sbnation...yout-cbs-turner



#30 paboom

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 04:47 AM

The SEC would go nowhere near the top of the rankings in wrestling. The Capitol One Cup calculates top NCAA athletic programs across all sports and more highly weighs popular sports, and in 2017 the SEC had 1 team in the top 10. And the one team in the top 10 was Alabama who doesn't make the top 10 without football. This year they have 2 of the top 30 halfway through the year. If you looked at the NACDA cup that values every sport the same, then Kentucky and Florida made the top 10 last year but Stanford has been champ of that for over 20 straight years. The bottom line is the football money is not helping the SEC much in existing non-revenue sports right now, so there is no reason to think it would help in a non-revenue sport where they have no history and no recruiting base.

Wrestling is largely a regional sport and the SEC is in the wrong region to win at anything approaching a high level.

Agree. The SEC adding wrestling would be nice and you would see success here and there individually but they would have a hard time being competitive with the mid west and north east.

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#31 olddirty

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 06:10 AM

Are grants of in-state tuition to out-of-state student-athletes common?  Arizona is not fertile recruiting ground, so covering half of tuition as an out-of-state resident is a big ask.  Also, schools attracting kids with high grades (Michigan, Stanford, Cornell, etc.) probably dole out academic scholarships to help with what the wrestling scholarship doesn't cover.  Duke does ok with zero wrestling aid.

 

Athletes must adhere to the same residency requirements as all students.

Actually ASU does this, along with many other schools.  Its called the WUE.  Doesnt work for east coast schools though.

 

In addition, a very high percentage of wrestlers just redshirt and take the fall quarter below 9 credits and they then become in state residents, assuming they didnt take a full course load in the summer.



#32 SC_Wrestling

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:11 AM

No such guarantee. Until very recently U. of Michigan was in the red in the Big 10 for years even with all the bowl/TV money. Now #4 on your list, the school is sitting on a $240 million athletic debt. http://www.crainsdet...thletics-debt-a


If the universities are non-profit, then they need to spend all the revenues generated from football, right? I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but maybe that’s why they aren’t showing profits. It might be by design.

UM’s $240M athletic debt is probably locked in at a very low interest rate with favorable terms. A lot of athletic departments are taking advantage of low rates to enhance their facilities.

#33 cbg

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 07:48 AM

Agree. The SEC adding wrestling would be nice and you would see success here and there individually but they would have a hard time being competitive with the mid west and north east.

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The SEC would have the money to buy the best coaches and student athletes available.  The real question is if they would ever spend that money on wrestling?  Just look at what the SEC is doing in baseball and track & field.



#34 boconnell

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 08:22 AM

The SEC would have the money to buy the best coaches and student athletes available.  The real question is if they would ever spend that money on wrestling?  Just look at what the SEC is doing in baseball and track & field.

They have the money for all sports and largely don't spend it.  Baseball is a warm weather sport that in college is almost exclusively the south and the west coast.  The final 16 in last year's college baseball were all south or west coast.  That is the recruiting base and that is who is good in college.  The state leaders for producing current MLB guys are California, Texas, Florida, and then the rest of the south and midwest.  But none of the midwest natives stay home for college because of weather.  So the SEC being good in baseball has nothing to do with football money and everything to do with geography.  This is the same reason the Big 10 is good at wrestling and NCAA lacrosse championships stay in the northeast.  The SEC has as much chance of winning the frozen four as they do the NCAA wrestling tournament.



#35 pamela

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 09:07 AM

If the universities are non-profit, then they need to spend all the revenues generated from football, right? I don’t know all the ins and outs of it, but maybe that’s why they aren’t showing profits. It might be by design.

UM’s $240M athletic debt is probably locked in at a very low interest rate with favorable terms. A lot of athletic departments are taking advantage of low rates to enhance their facilities.

 

???



#36 ionel

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 12:31 PM

why are athletic scholarships an issue for ASU.... you dont have to be a rocket science to get in... you would think they can get most of their recruits in on academic scholarships


"most" you are kidding, correct?

#37 Swayz

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 12:35 PM

Maybe the issue is amount of programs west of the Rockies?   We need to grow the sport more and get schools to add  west of the Rockies in many divisions so travel isn't an issue (or scapegoat to drop a program).   Travel has got to be rough for a lot of the DI's in Arizona, Cal, Oregon and Utah.



#38 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 01:31 PM

Excuse me, I meant only generates profit in a handful of institutions. I used the wrong verbiage.

 

 

 

Simple mistake 


Edited by Cletus_Tucker, 18 April 2018 - 01:32 PM.


#39 pamela

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Posted 18 April 2018 - 03:33 PM

Maybe the issue is amount of programs west of the Rockies?   We need to grow the sport more and get schools to add  west of the Rockies in many divisions so travel isn't an issue (or scapegoat to drop a program).   Travel has got to be rough for a lot of the DI's in Arizona, Cal, Oregon and Utah.

 

Do you mean rough in terms of cost, or rough logistically in terms of time and locations? Because I think the Pac schools at least, are pretty easy to travel to if flying is an option. Fresno State is probably one of the toughest current D1 locations in the west to travel to for a number of reasons.



#40 GockeS

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 12:47 AM

both


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