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good idea to leave your heart out of it when making predictions....... imo

lol im not as devastated as maybe i portrayed, I mean they ended tied, in both matches just lot on criteria, very confident moving forward, just would have preferred to hit the nail on the head  

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both Fix and Ringer, losing heartbreakers, going to need some time to recoup from this .... :) bring on the WTT

 

Ringer loses 10/10. Fix needs to learn how to find ways to win at the senior level against adults for work position.

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Ringer loses 10/10. Fix needs to learn how to find ways to win at the senior level against adults for work position.

I'm telling you man, form a nasty Tech in their first meeting to a 1pt loss last year , to a 5-5 criteria loss.... Ringer is getting there. 

Ramos is just good at what he does, especially domestically, surprised he never got his game-plan of kinda stall stall stall ...if forced shoot for all the marbles.... to work on the world stage. 

If Fix can't get passed him at WTT, I will hope Gillman keeps his spot, I trust his offense a lot more 

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I'm telling you man, form a nasty Tech in their first meeting to a 1pt loss last year , to a 5-5 criteria loss.... Ringer is getting there. 

Ramos is just good at what he does, especially domestically, surprised he never got his game-plan of kinda stall stall stall ...if forced shoot for all the marbles.... to work on the world stage. 

If Fix can't get passed him at WTT, I will hope Gillman keeps his spot, I trust his offense a lot more 

World level guys work angles and trips that can get past Ramos' hands defense. Fix has shown several times against "men" with good hand defense that he doesn't attack from angles well enough just yet. He gets exposed for being mostly straight at you. Gilman creates the needed angles for his high-C/snatch singles and I'd expect him to repeat his victories over Ramos if the two of them match up at Final X.

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Fix is not ready to medal at senior worlds. I won’t be bummed if he doesn’t make the team. He needs a couple more years to be a serious threat.

I don't disagree, anyone who is going to medal needs to be able to handle Ramos's tactics with relative ease, as Gillman did last year. Hate to say it because I'm not "big" on Gillman, but he seems to be our clear cut #1 (At this point) he can score on Ramos, and if Ramos's game-plan works on the rest of our field. 

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I'd expect him to repeat his victories over Ramos if the two of them match up at Final X.

Yeah 100% I just typed something similar above. Our field struggles with Ramos, and Gillman does not. 

I see Ramos making the finals and losing to Gillman. 

Thomas remains our rep this year. 

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So my question is what about Spencer Lee? and how does he figure into all of this. If not, then I see Gilman being the guy.

61, Colon is just gritty can he pull it off again at final X, we'll see. If he ends up being our rep, so be it. But I have to ask again, why no Maple? He was walking around the arena like it was no problem, I'm perplexed.

65, I guess Joey McKenna the guy with the inside track, does Logiebear come back and win the trials? And if he does, can beat Joey, and if so, can he do anything at the World's?

70, Green, but I hope Nolf shows up at the WTT, and then at least pushes Green at the Final X.

74, Burroughs

79, well Dake most likely, but I thought about today's bout, I thought that had Alex made Dake move around and gotten him out of position and then shot more, he made have had a different outcome.

86, Taylor

92 Cox

97, SnyderMan

125, Gwiz vs Coon? Wow, idk.

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An un-incarcerated life?

Yeah, I'm sure everyone's seen it at every level. 

But with these other kids training year round and participating in, let's say "Healthy" development. 

He will continue to fall behind the "good" kids at the weight, forget about the top 2 or 3 guys. 

He should just go ahead and get into fighting. Not predicting he will be good or bad, but wrestling competitively just isnt a real option anymore. 

If he enjoys it this much though, keep grinding out top 8 finishes domestically to your hearts content 

 

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Does he have a year of juniors left? He's not beating Dake or Ringer anyways probably just taking a step away for now. Never hurt anything

 

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I think Hall is done at the junior level. He went 3x. Nothing wrong with taking time off, of course. It could do him a world of good, and maybe he feels he needs to regroup after his loss to ZV. And I agree he’s not likely to beat Dake or Ringer at 79kg. But still, seems unlike him. He’s been a staple at every freestyle event forever.

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After watching Fix I’m more convinced Lee can beat him. I also think Lee can score on Ramos and won’t give up points like Fix did. Lee’s takedown arsenal is completely different than Fix’s Many more shots. Works the two on one and is able to get to the angle better than almost everyone. We shall see.

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After watching Fix I’m more convinced Lee can beat him. I also think Lee can score on Ramos and won’t give up points like Fix did. Lee’s takedown arsenal is completely different than Fix’s Many more shots. Works the two on one and is able to get to the angle better than almost everyone. We shall see.

I mean, I have to catch myself all the time going "Ramos sucks he never scores" but he has been our "BEST GUY" at the weight most years, so we have to respect that very few people at 57kg can beat him. 

That said, he's an eyelash out of reach of the rest of the field (hell he almost lost first round), and in a best of 3... I too like Lee or Fix. 

I think Lee will attack Fix however (playing into his strengths) and I'm interested to see who wins the battle of offense. 

Ramos and Deshazer did show that Fix has trouble "Forcing" offense on "defensive" wrestlers

And Lee has plenty of offense even against guys who dont want to wrestle. 

Again I dont know who will win Fix vs Lee, but I would think Lee would be more of a threat offensively to Ramos just because he has attacks he can use on "defensive" opponents. 

Can't wait to see how it shakes out 

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Lee will attack Fix, but I'm quite sure he won't do so as carelessly as in the past. He has matured a lot in terms of picking his spots in just the last year alone. Lee now knows he can't just blow through guys like he used to do at 110. When they meet up next, Brands will have a solid game plan. I can't wait to see the rematch.

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I think Hall is done at the junior level. He went 3x. Nothing wrong with taking time off, of course. It could do him a world of good, and maybe he feels he needs to regroup after his loss to ZV. And I agree he’s not likely to beat Dake or Ringer at 79kg. But still, seems unlike him. He’s been a staple at every freestyle event forever.

 

I'm betting it's what you said too. Hall now knows where he stands against seniors after his last senior outing and his two consecutive losses to a college kid this year. He has a promising future but needs to adopt a different approach or he'll be very lucky to make this year's team as the third stringer.

 

As a related aside, I still can't believe there were some calling for Hall over Dake this year.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Eirmann frustrated with the officiating it seems. Can't say I blame him 100%, the same position got called somewhat different each time which has to be frustrating as a competitor.

It is FREESTYLE - scoring + officiating = very poor sport in general

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I'm betting it's what you said too. Hall now knows where he stands against seniors after his last senior outing and his two consecutive losses to a college kid this year. He has a promising future but needs to adopt a different approach or he'll be very lucky to make this year's team as the third stringer.

 

As a related aside, I still can't believe there were some calling for Hall over Dake this year.

It’s Hall’s incredible high school and junior career that even makes this a question. For almost anyone else a no redshirt sophomore (cue the complaints!) who is a 2x finalist and 1x champ wouldn’t raise an eyebrow for not showing up. Or only partially showing up like Bo Nickal last year (junior open but not at the trials). But Hall not showing is a surprise. I still half expect to hear he has pteitoned in to the trials based on some legit rationale.

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Lee will attack Fix, but I'm quite sure he won't do so as carelessly as in the past. He has matured a lot in terms of picking his spots in just the last year alone. Lee now knows he can't just blow through guys like he used to do at 110. When they meet up next, Brands will have a solid game plan. I can't wait to see the rematch.

Right. Lee’s losses to Fix were in my view self-inflicted wounds. He was well ahead in both matches and kept attacking till he lost the match. Yes I’m over simplifying and it’s a very Lee-friendly point of view but the fact remains Lee created a lot of offense on Lee and wrestled two tactically bad second halves.

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I mean, I have to catch myself all the time going "Ramos sucks he never scores" but he has been our "BEST GUY" at the weight most years, so we have to respect that very few people at 57kg can beat him.

That said, he's an eyelash out of reach of the rest of the field (hell he almost lost first round), and in a best of 3... I too like Lee or Fix.

I think Lee will attack Fix however (playing into his strengths) and I'm interested to see who wins the battle of offense.

Ramos and Deshazer did show that Fix has trouble "Forcing" offense on "defensive" wrestlers

And Lee has plenty of offense even against guys who dont want to wrestle.

Again I dont know who will win Fix vs Lee, but I would think Lee would be more of a threat offensively to Ramos just because he has attacks he can use on "defensive" opponents.

Can't wait to see how it shakes out

Agreed. It’s hard to argue Ramos sucks. It is easier to argue that his style and skill level have not gotten it done. It’s conjecture but from where I sit he probably won’t get it done either. This in no way means that Fix and Lee are better bets this year. Fix at U23s showed us that there’s competition out there that can defeat him. Or at least that *could* defeat him.

 

What I find intriguing about Lee is that as good as he was in high school, a year at Iowa really took him to another level. He’s had a lot of high level training experience since he lost to Fix, including training with Dennis in 2016. Because of his injuries we never got to see him put it into action against high level opponents, at least until NCAAs.

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Agreed. It’s hard to argue Ramos sucks. It is easier to argue that his style and skill level have not gotten it done. It’s conjecture but from where I sit he probably won’t get it done either. This in no way means that Fix and Lee are better bets this year. Fix at U23s showed us that there’s competition out there that can defeat him. Or at least that *could* defeat him.

 

What I find intriguing about Lee is that as good as he was in high school, a year at Iowa really took him to another level. He’s had a lot of high level training experience since he lost to Fix, including training with Dennis in 2016. Because of his injuries we never got to see him put it into action against high level opponents, at least until NCAAs.

I don't disagree on Lee's development. From HS wrestling outmatched opponents day in an out, to a college season, along with a room full of "adult" hammers. Seems to have benefitted him greatly. 

I have no clue what to expect and can see any of the 3 winning the trials, and like you said "in no way is that saying, they will beat Gillman or place at the worlds" at this point though, with no "Senior level" data on Lee, I'll assume he is 50/50 with Fix... 

If he blows Fix out in the Tourney, I will expect Ramos to suffer the same fate 

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