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Final x

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Excuse my ignorance here but can someone explain the qualification system now. So they are holding a WTT trial in MN first, then the winners of that move to final x for a best of 3 and the winners make the team? Am I following this correctly? Also did they just do away with having to outplace a returning medalist at a foreign event like in years past and just make it a head to head best of 3?

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Final X is the Best-of-3 final at each weight in June. There are two scenarios for how each weight works:

 

If we have a returning medalist at a weight, that person is automatically in the Final X. In this scenario, the US Open champion (April) advances automatically to the Best-of-3 World Team Trials challenge tournament final (May). The rest of the WTT challenge tournament entries wrestle a single elimination tournament to determine the second WTT Best-of-3 finalist.

 

If we have no returning medalist at a weight, the US Open champion advances automatically to the Final X. All others that qualify for WTT's, wrestle in the WTT challenge tournament as single elimination until the final, which is best of 3 between the two semifinal winners. That WTT tournament winner faces the US Open champ at the Final X event.

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No matter what you called people would gripe, because people just love to find things to gripe about these days.

My goodness....

 

Yeah, I literally laughed out loud reading a few posts here. Any time there is change in this sport people scoff for some reason. If a solid chunk of posters on this board had it their way Olympic styles would still be wrestled in banana hammocks, folk in the diaper singlets, and you'd have to find results in your WIN subscription. 

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Final X is the Best-of-3 final at each weight in June. There are two scenarios for how each weight works:

 

If we have a returning medalist at a weight, that person is automatically in the Final X. In this scenario, the US Open champion (April) advances automatically to the Best-of-3 World Team Trials challenge tournament final (May). The rest of the WTT challenge tournament entries wrestle a single elimination tournament to determine the second WTT Best-of-3 finalist.

 

If we have no returning medalist at a weight, the US Open champion advances automatically to the Final X. All others that qualify for WTT's, wrestle in the WTT challenge tournament as single elimination until the final, which is best of 3 between the two semifinal winners. That WTT tournament winner faces the US Open champ at the Final X event.

 

How is the 3rd man on the team decided - we have some funding for three people at each weight, right? I mean, in a weight where there is not a standing medalist, do they wrestle for true second at the WTT, or is it the guy who loses in the finals? In a weight where there is a standing medalist and the Open Champ is set in the WTT finals, it's a little more straightforward.

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How is the 3rd man on the team decided - we have some funding for three people at each weight, right? I mean, in a weight where there is not a standing medalist, do they wrestle for true second at the WTT, or is it the guy who loses in the finals? In a weight where there is a standing medalist and the Open Champ is set in the WTT finals, it's a little more straightforward.

The 3rd place aka the 3rd National Team member is the 2nd place finisher from the World Team Trials. However, if the 2nd place finisher and 3rd have not wrestled, there will be a "true" 2nd at the Final X events. 

 

That place is worth a lot due to national team funding, national camps,and international trip privileges. 

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Don Beshada made a pretty good point on Twitter though, that it does mildly devalue the Open when those World Medalists don't have to participate. Maybe require the World medalists to finish in a certain spot in the Open (on a sliding scale, like, say, second for a World Bronze, third for a Silver, fifth for a Gold) to "redeem" their Final X spot? Just a thought...

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The 3rd place aka the 3rd National Team member is the 2nd place finisher from the World Team Trials. However, if the 2nd place finisher and 3rd have not wrestled, there will be a "true" 2nd at the Final X events. 

 

That place is worth a lot due to national team funding, national camps,and international trip privileges. 

 

So the 2nd place finisher could potentially wrestle 4 matches that day as opposed to 1 for the third place finisher? And they have to weigh in pay for travel, lodging, etc for themselves and their support staff to make the trip and they might not even wrestle?

 

I would be interested in seeing a cost/benefit analysis done on whether that match is financially worth it for that number 3 wrestler and their club. If the move up to second is only worth like $1K over the course of the year it seems like the wrestler would be better off not showing up and using that money for their own stipend/trips.

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So the 2nd place finisher could potentially wrestle 4 matches that day as opposed to 1 for the third place finisher? And they have to weigh in pay for travel, lodging, etc for themselves and their support staff to make the trip and they might not even wrestle?

 

I would be interested in seeing a cost/benefit analysis done on whether that match is financially worth it for that number 3 wrestler and their club. If the move up to second is only worth like $1K over the course of the year it seems like the wrestler would be better off not showing up and using that money for their own stipend/trips.

No. The loser of the World Team Trials Best-of-Three would wrestle the winner of the consolation bracket at the World Team Trials at one of the Final X sites for the third slot at the weight on the National team. My only question is, would that "true-third" wrestle-off be best of three or one match, and also, would it be at the same Final X site as the championship match of that weight class, or would it be distributed amongst the three sites.

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Don Beshada made a pretty good point on Twitter though, that it does mildly devalue the Open when those World Medalists don't have to participate. Maybe require the World medalists to finish in a certain spot in the Open (on a sliding scale, like, say, second for a World Bronze, third for a Silver, fifth for a Gold) to "redeem" their Final X spot? Just a thought...

 

That would be some very muddy reasoning - especially taking two losses and still having the protection of best 2/3, but really taking any loss and getting that benefit would be tough to justify IMO. I think most of our winner-takes-all culture would be holding its nose.

I'm inclined to look at the glass half full on this one. It places value on World Level success more than it devalues the US Open. Winning any international tournament is valuable, but stringing together all those wins over the the rest of the World's elite is something special. 

I could understand an argument against having the US Open Champ getting a pass to Final X more than one against a defending World Medalist. Like if Ramos was sitting in Final X right now without any great international successes, I'd think that scenario would be counter productive if we we're trying to put our best World competitor on the team. Joe Colon is probably a better example, but I'm feeding the criticism Ramos got this weekend. 

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That place is worth a lot due to national team funding, national camps,and international trip privileges. 

 

not in the know here, what does international trip privileges mean? 

is some of the money subsidized? 

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Don Beshada made a pretty good point on Twitter though, that it does mildly devalue the Open when those World Medalists don't have to participate. Maybe require the World medalists to finish in a certain spot in the Open (on a sliding scale, like, say, second for a World Bronze, third for a Silver, fifth for a Gold) to "redeem" their Final X spot? Just a thought...

sounds a little like people taking a med forf at their NCAA qualifier...

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That would be some very muddy reasoning - especially taking two losses and still having the protection of best 2/3, but really taking any loss and getting that benefit would be tough to justify IMO. I think most of our winner-takes-all culture would be holding its nose.

I'm inclined to look at the glass half full on this one. It places value on World Level success more than it devalues the US Open. Winning any international tournament is valuable, but stringing together all those wins over the the rest of the World's elite is something special. 

I could understand an argument against having the US Open Champ getting a pass to Final X more than one against a defending World Medalist. Like if Ramos was sitting in Final X right now without any great international successes, I'd think that scenario would be counter productive if we we're trying to put our best World competitor on the team. Joe Colon is probably a better example, but I'm feeding the criticism Ramos got this weekend. 

Probably should have mentioned, that was a brainstorm, looking for feedback, and not an all-out suggestion. Also, there are some loose ends that I'd (they'd) need to tie up, such as, what happens if (for example) Kyle Snyder wins both a World medal and The Open?

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No. The loser of the World Team Trials Best-of-Three would wrestle the winner of the consolation bracket at the World Team Trials at one of the Final X sites for the third slot at the weight on the National team. My only question is, would that "true-third" wrestle-off be best of three or one match, and also, would it be at the same Final X site as the championship match of that weight class, or would it be distributed amongst the three sites.

 

Ah I see... I thought they were wrestling for 'true second'. My bad.

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