Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 If the suspension was so unjust and beyond common sense he should have appealed it an made sure that he'd be able to participate this year. The USADA has procedures in place for a reason. The one year suspension was not unjust. Not getting an invite, given the entirety of the circumstances, to WTTs is irrational and idiotic. If you get popped at the US Open it is very reasonable to assume you could miss two world championships. No it isn’t if the USADA suspension is for 1 year. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,214 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 I agree with your statements. However, he is off suspension now. At the time, I'm guessing he figured he could make a last chance tourney and win it and get into the WTT's. If that is the case, it is unfortunate for him that this is the first year without such tourneys in recent memory (at least my memory). mspart "figuring" you can still make a team does not give you a pass on breaking the rules... no one is saying cheating, but, if this was an athlete outside the US, that would be the narrative on this board... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) I do know USOC has to approve selection procedures (I've worked out there in the past) but they don't neccessarily dictate. Given that I would assume they would have to approve an exception to procedures. But again that part of it I don't not know. Just out of curiosity why don't you agree at all with paragraph 1? You don't think that starts a slippery slope? I agree that the USADA needs to be strict, but even they have leeway. That’s why he only got 1 year, instead of 2. USAW bi-laws are intentionally written to give them great latitude and discretion. This allows them the flexibility to make reasonable decisions based on specific circumstances. That is not what is happening here. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Edited May 2, 2018 by Angry_Fish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 909 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 The one year suspension was not unjust. Not getting an invite, given the entirety of the circumstances, to WTTs is irrational and idiotic. If you get popped at the US Open it is very reasonable to assume you could miss two world championships. No it isn’t if the USADA suspension is for 1 year. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If he would have tested positive at the World Team Trials he'd be looking at two years worth of World Championships with a one year suspension. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 If he would have tested positive at the World Team Trials he'd be looking at two years worth of World Championships with a one year suspension. Maybe. Depending on calendar dates and USAW’s willingness to invite him (assuming his suspension was over by the time WTTs were scheduled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 909 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 Maybe. Depending on calendar dates and USAW’s willingness to invite him (assuming his suspension was over by the time WTTs were scheduled. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk If they let Oliver in expect a flood of petitions to come through with guys saying they couldn't wrestle because their cat died, they had finals, God told them not to get on a plane, and so on. All of which I'd listen to more than if a guy missed qualifying due to being suspended from competition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 And let’s be honest with ourselves. If the exact situation occurred in the last year and a week with JB, KS and and couple others, they would have invites. And that’s wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 909 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 And let’s be honest with ourselves. If the exact situation occurred in the last year and a week with JB, KS and and couple others, they would have invites. And that’s wrong. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk False Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mspart 183 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 (edited) False how? Easy to say, harder to prove. mspart Edited May 2, 2018 by mspart Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 909 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 False how? Easy to say, harder to prove. mspart Prove to me that Snyder or Burroughs would be allowed into the World Team Trials if they were suspended such as Oliver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 Prove to me that Snyder or Burroughs would be allowed into the World Team Trials if they were suspended such as Oliver. Check PM Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,214 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 Burroughs and Snyder are smart enough to not get popped... JO not so much... but, but, but... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mspart 183 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 Prove to me that Snyder or Burroughs would be allowed into the World Team Trials if they were suspended such as Oliver. Prove to me they wouldn't, which is what I asked. mspart Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,214 Report post Posted May 2, 2018 my dad can beat up your dad... 3 Coach_J, BobDole and GranbyTroll reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BobDole 909 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 Prove to me they wouldn't, which is what I asked. mspart Thanks, proved my point. My original statement stands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach_J 2,000 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 JO vs. Asgarov...loser drops a urine sample! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
de4856 356 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 I think all these Beat the Streets events are pretty cool, and I'm looking forward to seeing it. I think the two super matches with JB and JO will be very exciting. I also hope to see a real good dual between us and the TBA, as well as our women competing against the three Nigerian wrestlers. 2 Angry_Fish and Coach_J reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GranbyTroll 411 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 Loser has to make scratch 65kg two mornings in a row. Don't even give'em the +2kg! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WillieBoy 712 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 Dole and some others. You are the same guys who think a kid who got caught with some pot a few years ago and got 10 year in the Penitentiary should not get any leeway even though the jurisdiction he was in now has weed legalized for personal use. Rules are rules and mercy, humanity and making or modifying decisions based on further light and knowledge of the facts should never enter into it. That is what I am reading in your posts and it stinks. Whether a mistake in paperwork, understanding or plain stupidity Oliver was banned as a result of a substance he apparently would have been approved for if he had done the correct paperwork. Add in the change so no "last chance qualifier" this year and you are piling on the man. There is no rational reason for it. 365 Days... and heaven help us if it is Leap Year - maybe in that case he would have had his arms amputated as well. Rules are Rules and "common sense" is not so common as you show so well. 1 Angry_Fish reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LJB 1,214 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 as far as i can tell, JO has not been sentenced to any jail time... he is not some kid... he is presumably an elite athlete still trying to compete in a sport that has rules... rules that it is his repsonsibility to know, understand, and abide by... it is not a right to compete for the US as an athlete... it is a privilege... he lost that privilege for a year by breaking the rules of his chosen sport... he is free to compete now... he broke the rules of his sport... no amount of whining, suspect justification, false narratives, or made up circumstances created will change that... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 as far as i can tell, JO has not been sentenced to any jail time... he is not some kid... he is presumably an elite athlete still trying to compete in a sport that has rules... rules that it is his repsonsibility to know, understand, and abide by... it is not a right to compete for the US as an athlete... it is a privilege... he lost that privilege for a year by breaking the rules of his chosen sport... he is free to compete now... he broke the rules of his sport... no amount of whining, suspect justification, false narratives, or made up circumstances created will change that... And the rules allow him to be invited to WTTs, but he hasn’t been. It’s not a question of rules, it’s s question of USAW’s horrible decision. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 1 cjc007 reacted to this Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,179 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) It's not a horrible decision. You can say you wish they would but it's not a decision at all, let alone horrible. Do you really think the caveat of putting in a WC procedure was for the sake of....in case anyone misses all of the qualifiers because they were under drug suspension. Do we know he applied for a wild card? Do we know he applied before the deadline? Do we know if he was under suspension when he applied? Do we know if being under suspension when applying is an acceptable reason to apply? Come on man. I know you'd like to see him get a shot here. But come on.... Edited May 3, 2018 by Lurker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) It's not a horrible decision. You can say you wish they would but it's not a decision at all, let alone horrible. Do you really think the caveat of putting in a WC procedure was for the sake of....in case anyone misses all of the qualifiers because they were under drug suspension. Do we know he applied for a wild card? Do we know he applied before the deadline? Do we know if he was under suspension when he applied? Do we know if being under suspension when applying is an acceptable reason to apply? Come on man. I know you'd like to see him get a shot here. But come on.... Learn the rules. There is no application processes this year. It’s in USAW’s sole discretion to choose to modify the previously announced eligibility criteria to address any circumstances that arise as they see fit (by virtue of a recommendation from the Sports Committee and approval from the Executive Committee). They made the horrible decision not to do so. Bi-Law 6.2.2 grants this power without limitations. And I have very good reason to believe they would have made a different decision had this EXACT situation arisen with JB or KS. And yes, JO has made it clear to USAW that he would like an invite at 65KG. Edited May 3, 2018 by Angry_Fish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lurker 1,179 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 (edited) Okay I'll grant you I haven't looked up the WC procedure for this year, as I don't see anyone out there with a good argument for a wild card this year. But my main point remains the same, do you really believe that caveat is there for the intent of someone who missed the qualifiers because of a drug suspension. Do you honestly believe that is in the best interest of the sport. And what is your very good reason to believe JB or KS would be granted a "bye" if they were irresponsible enough to miss all the qualifiers because of a drug suspension. Your opinion? Or a legitimate good reason? Do you recall Joe Warren's suspension being upheld before the 08 Olympics for weed? Greco Roman world champs are a little harder to come by here in the US, yet.... Now, circumstances in the two cases are different yes. But the fundamental argument is the same. Exceptions and special consideration are not given with drug suspensions. AS THEY SHOULD NOT BE. And there is no evidence that it would be for a world champ, in fact, the only evidence is the contrary, period. Edited May 3, 2018 by Lurker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Angry_Fish 313 Report post Posted May 3, 2018 Okay I'll grant you I haven't looked up the WC procedure for this year, as I don't see anyone out there with a good argument for a wild card this year. But my main point remains the same, do you really believe that caveat is there for the intent of someone who missed the qualifiers because of a drug suspension. Do you honestly believe that is in the best interest of the sport. And what is your very good reason to believe JB or KS would be granted a "bye" if they were irresponsible enough to miss all the qualifiers because of a drug suspension. Your opinion? Or a legitimate good reason? Do you recall Joe Warren's suspension being upheld before the 08 Olympics for weed? Greco Roman world champs are a little harder to come by here in the US, yet.... Now, circumstances in the two cases are different yes. But the fundamental argument is the same. Exceptions and special consideration are not given with drug suspensions. AS THEY SHOULD NOT BE. And there is no evidence that it would be for a world champ, in fact, the only evidence is the contrary, period. I don’t think the rules were written with any specific circumstance in mind. They were written in a manner to give USAW great flexibility. I would write them the same way if I were them. I applaud them for allowing themselves this latitude and discretion but I think their wisdom not to use in this case is horrible. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
