JO/Asgarov

[Lurker 983]

Yeah I got the call me message too. I'm dumb but not that dumb.

 

You want to scream out your claims in a public forums, back them up in public. If they're (USAW) pulling such the travesty as the "claim", should be no problem to man up and take them to task on it

[LJB 936]

a sternly worded letter is definitely in order... 

 

but mailed with no return address... and signed anonymously... and mailed from an out of town post office... secret like...

[Coach_J 1,920]

even the oprah did not force you to send a phone # for "THE SECRET"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0cF2piwjYQ

[LJB 936]

perhaps we should reach out to Dean Wormer to get to the bottom of this travesty!!!!!!

[maolsen 94]

We have seen returning medalists get favorible calls in close matches for the spot, have had a system designed to give those wrestlers an advantage, what makes you think that a returning medalist wouldn't get the benifit of the doubt if they are no longer suspended. If JO was a world medalist, especially considering his situation where he wasnt cheating,it is unlikely that they would not grant him an invite.

[LJB 936]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

[maolsen 94]

If returning medalists get the benefit of the doubt in close matches, get automatic bids to the finals, why would you think a returning medalist wouldnt get invited in this situation? No longer suspended, was suspended for a paperwork issue basically, you are naive if you feel a multiple time champ like Burroughs or snyder would not get an invite, let alone a returning medalist.

[LJB 936]

claiming something would definitely happen that has never happened previously... who is really being naive here?

[maolsen 94]

Elite athletes tend to get a little bit more leniency, it might not be fair, but thats how it goes. Just feel JOs winning the open last year would be enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation and posibly help our team try to repeat.

[Coach_J 1,920]

I honestly don't believe JO qualifies as "elite" at this point.  A Junior World bronze almost a decade ago, no senior level world or Olympic appearances, only one out-of-country international medal (bronze at the Dogu in '15, very respectable but nothing that by itself tosses someone into "elite" company) in his entire career, and a stripped national title.  He is nowhere near Snyder, Burroughs, Green, Gilman, etc., in being deserving of any special consideration.

[BobDole 858]

Elite athletes tend to get a little bit more leniency, it might not be fair, but thats how it goes. Just feel JOs winning the open last year would be enough to give him the benefit of the doubt in this situation and posibly help our team try to repeat.

The biggest difference is USAW would have to amend their by-laws in order to allow someone in like this. It isn't an easy process and if you start allowing guys into WTT in this manner you'll open up the floodgates.

 

About 3 years ago they let a couple people into WTT's as wildcards, then all of a sudden it ended up being A LOT of wildcards. You can read about it here

http://www.bloodround.com/blog/2015/6/10/wild-card-process-under-fire

 

On top of your claim of special privileges for former medalists, if one of our guys was popped they would have had to sit out the previous year's world/Olympic championships. Thus, they would not be returning, but a former medalist.

[maolsen 94]

The biggest difference is USAW would have to amend their by-laws in order to allow someone in like this. It isn't an easy process and if you start allowing guys into WTT in this manner you'll open up the floodgates.

 

About 3 years ago they let a couple people into WTT's as wildcards, then all of a sudden it ended up being A LOT of wildcards. You can read about it here

http://www.bloodround.com/blog/2015/6/10/wild-card-process-under-fire

 

On top of your claim of special privileges for former medalists, if one of our guys was popped they would have had to sit out the previous year's world/Olympic championships. Thus, they would not be returning, but a former medalist.

The fact that it would be difficult is exactly why a JO type athlete wouldnt get the invite (even if he could be the best option) but if a former medalist had that situation, they would likely see the incentive for jumping hoops to get them in. Thats the only part I'm really arguing. I would prefer JO to get an invite, but I would fully expect a KS/JB/or even a one time medalist to get an invite, where some seem to think that would definitely not happen. Edited May 4, 2018 by maolsen

[Angry_Fish 312]

The biggest difference is USAW would have to amend their by-laws in order to allow someone in like this. It isn't an easy process and if you start allowing guys into WTT in this manner you'll open up the floodgates.

 

About 3 years ago they let a couple people into WTT's as wildcards, then all of a sudden it ended up being A LOT of wildcards. You can read about it here

http://www.bloodround.com/blog/2015/6/10/wild-card-process-under-fire

 

On top of your claim of special privileges for former medalists, if one of our guys was popped they would have had to sit out the previous year's world/Olympic championships. Thus, they would not be returning, but a former medalist.

They would not have to update bi-laws. The bi-laws allow eligibility criteria to be updated at any time upon recommendation of the Sport Committee and Approval of the Executive Committee.

 

And this likely would’ve occurred if the identical situation existed for some of the others guys.

 

 

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Edited May 4, 2018 by Angry_Fish

[LJB 936]

the by laws do not state that... 

 

6.2.2 Sport Committees. The Sport Committees shall consist of the Freestyle Sport Committee, the Greco-Roman Sport Committee, the Women’s Freestyle Sport Committee, and such other sport committees as may be determined by the Board of Directors. Each Sport Committee, subject to policies established by the Board of Directors, shall make recommendations concerning selection procedures to be used to determine national teams and coaches. Each Sport Committee will recommend selection of volunteer coaches for assignments, and address short- and long-range issues for the national team program as related to each specific style.

 

just so everyone is clear, this is the actual verbiage...

[Lurker 983]

There is ZERO history showing a returning/former/whatever world medalist would get special consideration for USADA violation and suspension. There is in fact precedent that a returning world champ would NOT get special consideration for USADA violation/suspension (for a drug that is not performance enhancing and while under treatment with a doctor testifying on his behalf). Facts are facts. That argument holds zero basis. You can claim "100%" all you want but that doesn't change the reality. The end.

[Angry_Fish 312]

the by laws do not state that...

 

6.2.2 Sport Committees. The Sport Committees shall consist of the Freestyle Sport Committee, the Greco-Roman Sport Committee, the Women’s Freestyle Sport Committee, and such other sport committees as may be determined by the Board of Directors. Each Sport Committee, subject to policies established by the Board of Directors, shall make recommendations concerning selection procedures to be used to determine national teams and coaches. Each Sport Committee will recommend selection of volunteer coaches for assignments, and address short- and long-range issues for the national team program as related to each specific style.

 

just so everyone is clear, this is the actual verbiage...

Correct and notice that there are no restrictions listed preventing changes to be made at any time.

 

I confirmed that with a direct conversation with USAW. At that time I was also told that there is nothing currently in motion to do so.

 

In a separate conversation with USAW, I was also told that the situation would likely be handled differently if this situation occurred with a previous world/Olympic medal winner.

 

 

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Edited May 4, 2018 by Angry_Fish

[maolsen 94]

And you can claim "100%" that they would not get the benefit of the doubt, despite them getting it in every other situation. Luckily it hasnt happened so there is no precedent. But seeing as how our world medalists are treated, one can reasonaly expect them to get the benefit of the doubt and get invited.

Edited May 4, 2018 by maolsen

[Angry_Fish 312]

There is ZERO history showing a returning/former/whatever world medalist would get special consideration for USADA violation and suspension. There is in fact precedent that a returning world champ would NOT get special consideration for USADA violation/suspension (for a drug that is not performance enhancing and while under treatment with a doctor testifying on his behalf). Facts are facts. That argument holds zero basis. You can claim "100%" all you want but that doesn't change the reality. The end.

Special consideration is not being suggested for the suspension. A WTT invite for a wrestler not suspended is what is being discussed, keep up Sparky.

 

 

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[LJB 936]

i talked with USAW and they said there was no way in hell any returning world/olympic medalist would be given any special considerations after being caught cheating...

 

 

(see how easy that is?)

[maolsen 94]

i talked with USAW and they said there was no way in hell any returning world/olympic medalist would be given any special considerations after being caught cheating...

 

 

(see how easy that is?)

To bad JO wasnt caught cheating, and would have been allowed to wrestle if proper paperwork had been filled... but you know, why not exaggerate the issue. If actual cheating happened, a returning medalist would likely not get an invite, but a situation like JOs, its doubtful that they would be sitting at home. Edited May 4, 2018 by maolsen

[LJB 936]

nah... i talked to USAW and they definitely used the term "cheated"

[Lurker 983]

Special consideration is not being suggested for the suspension. A WTT invite for a wrestler not suspended is what is being discussed, keep up Sparky.

I'm more than keeping up my friend. And a special invite for someone who missed all of the qualifiers due to a drug suspension IS special consideration. Your whining, or funny names, doesn't change reality. Precedent and history is not on your side. But keep grinding if it makes me you feel better. Because that's all it will accomplish.

 

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Edited May 4, 2018 by Lurker

[mspart 165]

I honestly don't believe JO qualifies as "elite" at this point.  A Junior World bronze almost a decade ago, no senior level world or Olympic appearances, only one out-of-country international medal (bronze at the Dogu in '15, very respectable but nothing that by itself tosses someone into "elite" company) in his entire career, and a stripped national title.  He is nowhere near Snyder, Burroughs, Green, Gilman, etc., in being deserving of any special consideration.

 

Didn't he finish 2nd in WTT's for three times.  That's pretty elite if you ask me.

 

mspart

[Lurker 983]

Correct and notice that there are no restrictions listed preventing changes to be made at any time.

 

I confirmed that with a direct conversation with USAW. At that time I was also told that there is nothing currently in motion to do so.

 

In a separate conversation with USAW, I was also told that the situation would likely be handled differently if this situation occurred with a previous world/Olympic medal winner.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please elaborate on "a conversation with USAW". USAW is a very large organization. Who was this conversation with? Is this what you want people to call you on the phone about?

[maolsen 94]

I've seen 0 evidence that a former medalist wouldnt get an invite. Close calls lean their way, the system is designed to give a returning medalist the benefit of the doubt. Why would you thing a former medalist would be left home over a paperwork issue? Especially if we want to repeat as world champs. Assuming JO doesnt get his opportunity, flo should set something up between him and our rep, because why not. Give jo a chance to show USAW they made a mistake.

Edited May 4, 2018 by maolsen