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Why Kids Not Wrestling

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Now, Ray...Maybe you didn't listen to anyone telling you what to do...;)

 

I didn't listen... but that doesn't mean it wasn't irritating having them tell me.

 

Incidentally, one of the most interesting things about having children was discovering that "pain in the ass" is a congenital condition.  So apparently it wasn't my fault; I am a victim of biology.

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To this day, my brother and I (both DI wrestlers) love fighting in all of its forms: boxing, karate, judo, etc.  We would have wrestled as kids if our mother let us; she finally relented in middle school because practices were held near our house.

 

My son does not like sports, period.  I cannot imagine making him wrestle given how much he would hate it.

 

That being said, he is not exempt from learning what I call "life skills", and self-defense is a life skill.  So, he's working on his youth black belt in jiujitsu.  From my perspective, it's a more useful form of self-defense for someone like him, with its emphasis on neutralizing opponents.  I also make him swim - again, life skills - and he's good enough at backstroke and breaststroke to compete at a higher level if he wanted to, but, I can't wish it for him.

 

When he gets to high school, I will make him run track, because he's good at it and it will keep him off of Fortnite for a couple hours. 

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The year round club wrestler that gets his jollies pounding Rec kids is actually killing the sport. These type of kids are around in most sports but in team sport having one or two kids like that isn’t the same as an individual sport. And those club kids in team sports tend to play on club teams against other club teams so the normal kids can play against other multi sport kids. In wrestling, at least in PA and NJ, there is no middle class. There are beginner tourneys and then opens. In the open tourneys that 3 sport kid who is a good athlete but doesn’t wrestle in a club 4 nights a week gets hammered. And of course they are all money makers. There is no bigger disgrace than the NJ USA wrestling kids states where kids are paying close to $100 (for USA card and the tourney fee) to enter a single elimination tourney where, until you have placed in the states you are likely to run into a state place winner your first match

 

. Little Johnny’s parents pay the $100, go have him weigh in Friday night (kills an hour or more) and then sit around 4 hours on Sunday til he finally wrestles. Gets pinned in a minute, no wrestleback. Signs up for lacrosse the next day and who can blame him?

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The year round club wrestler that gets his jollies pounding Rec kids is actually killing the sport. These type of kids are around in most sports but in team sport having one or two kids like that isn’t the same as an individual sport. And those club kids in team sports tend to play on club teams against other club teams so the normal kids can play against other multi sport kids. In wrestling, at least in PA and NJ, there is no middle class. There are beginner tourneys and then opens. In the open tourneys that 3 sport kid who is a good athlete but doesn’t wrestle in a club 4 nights a week gets hammered. And of course they are all money makers. There is no bigger disgrace than the NJ USA wrestling kids states where kids are paying close to $100 (for USA card and the tourney fee) to enter a single elimination tourney where, until you have placed in the states you are likely to run into a state place winner your first match

 

. Little Johnny’s parents pay the $100, go have him weigh in Friday night (kills an hour or more) and then sit around 4 hours on Sunday til he finally wrestles. Gets pinned in a minute, no wrestleback. Signs up for lacrosse the next day and who can blame him?

 

 

Someone has to wrestle the tough kid first...all sports work that way

 

If they want to do something for the good of wrestling they need a wrestle-back. Out West a lot of the bigger folk style tournaments are doing second chance tourneys after kids are eliminated. 4 matches instead of 2 guaranteed. 

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Someone has to wrestle the tough kid first...all sports work that way

 

If they want to do something for the good of wrestling they need a wrestle-back. Out West a lot of the bigger folk style tournaments are doing second chance tourneys after kids are eliminated. 4 matches instead of 2 guaranteed.

 

Actually no other sports work that way. If you face a baseball team with an elite pitcher everyone faces the same kid. And usually that kid wants to play on a club team against other club players. There are different circuits that are more clearly defined. Also, you don’t have to wait for 4 hours and pay $100 to get only one at bat against that pitcher. This is true for all team sports.

 

For individual sports, in track you are in heats with a bunch of dudes and even if you can’t win you can try to set a personal best. I don’t know much about tennis but again I know you don’t wait 4 hours to play for 30 seconds

 

The wrestling model is totally flawed.

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Wrestling having zero roots in grade school sports offerings is a big part of the problem.

You play basketball, football, run track, and play soccer among other sports with your grade

school friends. Zero orientation is given in the grade schools to wrestling.

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Wrestling having zero roots in grade school sports offerings is a big part of the problem.

You play basketball, football, run track, and play soccer among other sports with your grade

school friends. Zero orientation is given in the grade schools to wrestling.

 

Where are you from to say that? Kids start wrestling in kindergarten around here. (Lehigh Valley- District XI Pa). When a friend of mine retired from coaching (Rick Thompson then coaching Bangor) I went to the match which was also senior day. One of the seniors is a kid of one of the assistants (also a friend that grew up down the street from me). When he was introduced it was mentioned that he had been wrestling 14 years. I said to those around me that it was remarkable to be able to say that and NOT cause a stir.

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Where are you from to say that? Kids start wrestling in kindergarten around here. (Lehigh Valley- District XI Pa). When a friend of mine retired from coaching (Rick Thompson then coaching Bangor) I went to the match which was also senior day. One of the seniors is a kid of one of the assistants (also a friend that grew up down the street from me). When he was introduced it was mentioned that he had been wrestling 14 years. I said to those around me that it was remarkable to be able to say that and NOT cause a stir.

That’s a long time wrestling. Some/a lot, of wrestling coaches encourage this. Most educators discourage that degree of focus. I know many wrestlers that did the same and now, years later, they don’t think it’s a good idea.

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I'd say its about 50/50 in most of your "hotbed" states if an above average kid grew up on the sport. 

 

I'd also say that a considerable amount of kids in those same states that do not wrestle in HS did in fact wrestle at some point in their youth. Its always interesting to me when I hear that an elite track athlete, or FB player in my building wrestled at some point but did not stick with it for various reasons. Not a shock that many say the time commitment was huge (in the wrong situation, it totally is). 

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That’s a long time wrestling. Some/a lot, of wrestling coaches encourage this. Most educators discourage that degree of focus. I know many wrestlers that did the same and now, years later, they don’t think it’s a good idea.

 

Why isn't it a good idea?  Is it because the assumption is that said wrestler was wrestling 10 months a year for 14 years?  What if I said, he wrestled three months out of the year for the first 10 years practicing 2-3X a week, and the last fours as a high school athlete just during wrestling season?

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I'd say its about 50/50 in most of your "hotbed" states if an above average kid grew up on the sport. 

 

I'd also say that a considerable amount of kids in those same states that do not wrestle in HS did in fact wrestle at some point in their youth. Its always interesting to me when I hear that an elite track athlete, or FB player in my building wrestled at some point but did not stick with it for various reasons. Not a shock that many say the time commitment was huge (in the wrong situation, it totally is). 

Why do we as a sport expect athletes to commit to wrestling at such a young age?  Why can't we take the same approach, recreational baseball, basketball, etc take?  

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Why do we as a sport expect athletes to commit to wrestling at such a young age?  Why can't we take the same approach, recreational baseball, basketball, etc take?  

 

I have no clue honestly. I agree with you, and I personally think that year-round wrestling shouldnt even be considered until HS. Even then, I am very against telling kids on your HS team to stick to one sport, especially if $$ is an issue in your athletic dept. 

 

I will say that the idea of totally separating "rec" wrestling and "club" wrestling is not so simple in wrestling because of the way open tournaments work. You can kind of mitigate the chances of running into a youth kid who's "too" good but having a rec league and facilitating duals only within the leaue (no clubs or individuals...etc) Even then, you get kids who do both rec and club (which I am also against at that age).

 

Unfortunately it's a complicated system - youth wrestling that is. A lot of it comes from a mix of the "old school" mentality our sport carries, and the complexity it has always had.

 

Numbers is an issues as well. In rec soccer for example, one city or suburb can facilitate lets say 6 teams - in wrestling if we tried that youd probably have 6 teams of 5-10 kids. Hence why your suburb has one "feeder" program/team that feeds into your HS. Which is a reason why open tournaments are necessary - you want all of those kids in your program to get matches, right? Not all will fit in your weekly league dual.  

Edited by iGranby

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The year round club wrestler that gets his jollies pounding Rec kids is actually killing the sport. These type of kids are around in most sports but in team sport having one or two kids like that isn’t the same as an individual sport. And those club kids in team sports tend to play on club teams against other club teams so the normal kids can play against other multi sport kids. In wrestling, at least in PA and NJ, there is no middle class. There are beginner tourneys and then opens. In the open tourneys that 3 sport kid who is a good athlete but doesn’t wrestle in a club 4 nights a week gets hammered. And of course they are all money makers. There is no bigger disgrace than the NJ USA wrestling kids states where kids are paying close to $100 (for USA card and the tourney fee) to enter a single elimination tourney where, until you have placed in the states you are likely to run into a state place winner your first match

 

. Little Johnny’s parents pay the $100, go have him weigh in Friday night (kills an hour or more) and then sit around 4 hours on Sunday til he finally wrestles. Gets pinned in a minute, no wrestleback. Signs up for lacrosse the next day and who can blame him?

 

Something similar to this happened to my nephew. He is a standout football player for his age in his area and I convinced my sister that wrestling would help him improve even more, especially since he is already playing one side of the ball (defense). For as athletic as he is, he tried wrestling and in his first two tournaments went up against some real age group hammers from a nationally recognized club. By Thanksgiving he was back to playing basketball with his friends and told me that he won't ever go back to wrestling.

 

I tried to convince him to stick it out, but he even asked me how he was going to make up that much time and technique to be competitive, at a club even he knew wasn't on the level of this other one I previously mentioned. It wasn't worth it to him, or my sister, and he said he'd rather spend more time becoming better at football or spending time playing pick up basketball with his friends. I felt bad for him and I didn't want him to hate the sport, but his experience was more than I could do to change his mind.

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Look, when you have the military and large city police departments complaining that there are fewer and fewer quality recruits because of obesity, criminal records and a general lack of physical fitness (kids who can't do a push up but aren't obese) it's going to trickle down to tougher sports like wrestling.

 

Kids always got their butts kicked by the tougher kids, club kids are not a factor.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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Look, when you have the military and large city police departments complaining that there are fewer and fewer quality recruits because of obesity, criminal records and a general lack of physical fitness (kids who can't do a push up but aren't obese) it's going to trickle down to tougher sports like wrestling.

 

Kids always got their butts kicked by the tougher kids, club kids are not a factor.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

I dont disagree necessarily. But to say that elite club kids dont play an additional role in everything is a bit silly - the bad kid is always the floor, and that does not move. Kid are getting better and better at younger ages, and more kids are getting better at those younger ages, the ceiling gets higher, and harder to reach.  

Edited by iGranby

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The year round club wrestler that gets his jollies pounding Rec kids is actually killing the sport. These type of kids are around in most sports but in team sport having one or two kids like that isn’t the same as an individual sport. And those club kids in team sports tend to play on club teams against other club teams so the normal kids can play against other multi sport kids. In wrestling, at least in PA and NJ, there is no middle class. There are beginner tourneys and then opens. In the open tourneys that 3 sport kid who is a good athlete but doesn’t wrestle in a club 4 nights a week gets hammered. And of course they are all money makers. There is no bigger disgrace than the NJ USA wrestling kids states where kids are paying close to $100 (for USA card and the tourney fee) to enter a single elimination tourney where, until you have placed in the states you are likely to run into a state place winner your first match

 

. Little Johnny’s parents pay the $100, go have him weigh in Friday night (kills an hour or more) and then sit around 4 hours on Sunday til he finally wrestles. Gets pinned in a minute, no wrestleback. Signs up for lacrosse the next day and who can blame him?

Why are the NJ USA events a one and done deal? That is stupid.

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Why are the NJ USA events a one and done deal? That is stupid.

 

Kids Folkstyle States are full double with no fee.

 

Qualifiers are single elim. They are $70 pre or $80 walkin IF you include the USA Card.

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I dont disagree necessarily. But to say that elite club kids dont play an additional role in everything is a bit silly - the bad kid is always the floor, and that does not move. Kid are getting better and better at younger ages, and more kids are getting better at those younger ages, the ceiling gets higher, and harder to reach.

But that is true in every other sport. I was a lightweight and never wrestled a short fat kid. Now it's common and they either get decked in seconds or get abused.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Edited by paboom

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Why isn't it a good idea? Is it because the assumption is that said wrestler was wrestling 10 months a year for 14 years? What if I said, he wrestled three months out of the year for the first 10 years practicing 2-3X a week, and the last fours as a high school athlete just during wrestling season?

Good question. What matters most is how it is handled.

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