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If Snyder and Burroughs win world gold this year...


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#41 spladle

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:11 AM

Revisionist history - lots of posting out of people's butts today

Edited by spladle, 14 May 2018 - 06:13 AM.


#42 jchapman

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:40 AM

That's what I came here to say.  Imagine if the Soviet Union got to bring their top 6 to the Olympics, AND there were only 6 weight classes.  

 

What weight was John Smith?  133 or something like that?  NO way he would have medaled (and he probably wouldn't make the team) if there were 6 weight classes.  121 - no way.  145 - way too small.  

You don't think John Smith (62 kg/136.4 lbs) beats out Molinaro (65kg/143lbs)?


Edited by jchapman, 14 May 2018 - 06:43 AM.

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#43 spladle

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 06:46 AM

Smith techs Molinaro, with single point takedowns, laces, guts, bent knee turks, and 15 point differentials. Until someone wins 6 straight from the US, he is our GOAT.
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#44 TripNSweep

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:14 AM

Don't remember did Neal ever wrestle Erikson? And weren't those Neal Vs Baum practice matches in 1997? 

 

When you're getting outscored in practice matches 22-1 I'd say that shows how big of a gap existed between Bruce and Neal at the time.  But Bruce felt that Neal was the future and he was sort of right.  


Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls. Contrary to what you've just seen, war is neither glamorous nor fun. There are no winners, only losers. There are no good wars, with the following exceptions: The American Revolution, World War II, and the Star Wars Trilogy. If you'd like to learn more about war, there's lots of books in your local library, many of them with cool, gory pictures.

#45 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 07:40 AM

What does your all time best American freestyler list look like?

1. Smith still or Burroughs? Burroughs would be tied for world golds, have more medal but “only” 1 Olympic gold and he didn’t win them all in a row.

2. Baumgartner or Snyder? Baumgartner has 13 medals, 4 at the Olympics and 2 Olympic golds. Crazy. Snyder would have 4 world golds in a row, including an Olympic gold, plus a finals win (maybe 2) over a legend.

 

 

Unless either becomes better, it does nothing for my list.    Now if you're asking about greatest, that absolutely has to be looked at.   Keep in mind,

 

Best = high water mark in level of wrestling.   

 

Greatest = resume.   Who accomplished the most.     


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#46 steamboat_charlie

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:11 AM

Burroughs at his peak, circa 2013 I think, was a complete force of nature.  Nobody was even close.  I never watched Smith in person but I imagine it was similar.  As much as I love Snyder he's never been untouchable like JB was at the time, at least not yet. 

 

That said, his resume is already absurd.  Has anyone ever won 3+ straight World titles and also won Yarygin every year?  



#47 ConnorsDad

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:26 AM

Burroughs because Smith lost to reinoso during his run of 6.


Huh? How many losses does Burroughs have? Got teched in the Olympics.

#48 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 08:50 AM

Burroughs at his peak, circa 2013 I think, was a complete force of nature.  Nobody was even close.  I never watched Smith in person but I imagine it was similar.  As much as I love Snyder he's never been untouchable like JB was at the time, at least not yet. 

 

That said, his resume is already absurd.  Has anyone ever won 3+ straight World titles and also won Yarygin every year?  

 

Yeah this is pretty close to how I see it.  Current Burroughs isn't as good as that 2013 or around there Burroughs and unless he gets better, no amount of future winning mean he's better.  It means he's winning despite not  being as good as he was.     

 

I've got Smith as our best.  I've yet to see someone better.   He's also our greatest to this point  but I think Snyder is going to catch him.   



#49 wrestlingshoe

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 10:57 AM

Burroughs won a world title with screws in his ankle 4 weeks after he broke it.  He also won a world bronze after he tore up his knee in the first round (and that is the only time that Tsargush was able to beat him).  Add all his accomplishments together and, as the title of the thread says, if he wins a world title this year, he is in the argument as the best US wrestler ever.  The era of 6 weights and multiple soviets in one weight class, adds a dimension that was not there in years past.  John Smith is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, as I grew up just a few years younger.  But, even if he could beat the top level Russian, having to wrestle multiple former Soviets in the same tourney takes a tole.  Not saying he would not still win, but it sure would make it much more difficult. 

 

With this year's World Gold, I would put Burroughs neck and neck with Smith. 


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#50 WillieBoy

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 11:40 AM

That's what I came here to say.  Imagine if the Soviet Union got to bring their top 6 to the Olympics, AND there were only 6 weight classes.  

 

What weight was John Smith?  133 or something like that?  NO way he would have medaled (and he probably wouldn't make the team) if there were 6 weight classes.  121 - no way.  145 - way too small.  

 

Did you ever watch John Smith wrestle?

 

He would have won no matter the classes. Technically superior and though he looked like an accountant who moonlights as a Church Choir director he was tough as nails. He let his wrestling do the talking and did nothing but win World Titles - six times in a row.


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#51 steamboat_charlie

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:17 PM

Burroughs won a world title with screws in his ankle 4 weeks after he broke it.  He also won a world bronze after he tore up his knee in the first round (and that is the only time that Tsargush was able to beat him).  Add all his accomplishments together and, as the title of the thread says, if he wins a world title this year, he is in the argument as the best US wrestler ever.  The era of 6 weights and multiple soviets in one weight class, adds a dimension that was not there in years past.  John Smith is one of my favorite wrestlers of all time, as I grew up just a few years younger.  But, even if he could beat the top level Russian, having to wrestle multiple former Soviets in the same tourney takes a tole.  Not saying he would not still win, but it sure would make it much more difficult. 

 

With this year's World Gold, I would put Burroughs neck and neck with Smith. 

 

Unfortunately for JB, the Rio collapse will always be a part of his legacy.  It would probably take a gold in 2020 for everyone to forget that.  Even if he doesn't win it but tacks on a gold this year and next year, he'll jump Smith in my book.  An Olympic gold at 32 would be nuts.  Saitiev-like. 



#52 jchapman

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 12:33 PM

6 for 6 is about as dominant as you can get. It is better than a would be 6 for 8 for Jordan or a would be 4 for 4 for Kyle.

Edited by jchapman, 14 May 2018 - 12:45 PM.

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#53 de4856

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 01:41 PM

Well, I am hoping for great success for both of them ( as well as all of our wrestlers ), in these upcoming World Championships. I don't know who is better than who, but one thing is for sure, is that all four are great, and we should be thankful that we have these special people representing the USA in our sport.

#54 hammerlockthree

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 04:01 PM

baumgartner will be incomparable forever....I don't mean the greatest, i mean impossible to compare.



#55 spladle

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Posted 14 May 2018 - 05:35 PM

We will never have a wrestler with that kind of longevity again. I think even Snyder will not make it to 10 years as the sole owner of his weight class domestically.

Edited by spladle, 14 May 2018 - 05:36 PM.


#56 PRyan2012

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 01:57 AM

We will never have a wrestler with that kind of longevity again. I think even Snyder will not make it to 10 years as the sole owner of his weight class domestically.

Snyder has a shot with his youth but still a long shot. 13 medals! 13 medals! Will not be matched! Big B! #1. Smith a distant #2 was done after his six. I am not sure he could have medaled again. No way his body could have went 4 cycles or 4 1/2 cycles like Bruce. I can think of a dozen guys better than Bruce if we were saying who peaked at the highest level.



#57 sgallan

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 01:04 PM

That's what I came here to say. Imagine if the Soviet Union got to bring their top 6 to the Olympics, AND there were only 6 weight classes.

What weight was John Smith? 133 or something like that? NO way he would have medaled (and he probably wouldn't make the team) if there were 6 weight classes. 121 - no way. 145 - way too small.

Yawn, another spin version of dumb American wrestling fans who hate American wrestlers because.... I don't know.... I guess because you are stupid.
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#58 spladle

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 01:17 PM

People who don't know squat about wrestling yapping their gums.
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#59 iGranby

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 11:52 PM

...but “only” 1 Olympic gold...

 

This reminded me of the episode of T-row/Funky when Ben Askren tells the story of John Smith talking about Kendall Cross "Hes good. But he's only got one olympic gold. ONE" 


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#60 AnklePicker

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Posted 16 May 2018 - 04:01 AM

Yawn, another spin version of dumb American wrestling fans who hate American wrestlers because.... I don't know.... I guess because you are stupid.


Go back in your hole. It’s not spin. It’s the facts. It’s WWAAYY harder to win world and Olympic titles now than it was in the 80s. You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are.
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