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Should NCAA Wrestling have legal wagering?


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#21 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:02 AM

Betting on wrestling?  Absolutely not.  

too late. there has been wagering on NCAA wrestling for years. 


Edited by Jaroslav Hasek, 24 May 2018 - 03:03 AM.


#22 pcostilow

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:32 AM

No because it's a degenerate vice. 


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#23 Husker_Du

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 05:43 AM

degenerative vice? lol. 



#24 Billyhoyle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 06:56 AM

degenerative vice? lol. 

There's no doubt that gambling is crushing if you do it consistently.  It's one thing to go to vegas and spend a couple days/week drinking and gambling. Doing a march madness/matness pool once a year isn't an issue either. It's another to spend your extra money on lottery tickets or betting on sports. Even if you bet reasonable amounts of money that won't bankrupt you, simply betting consistently sucks money that is much better off in a 401K.  



#25 Husker_Du

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:18 AM

everything is crushing if you do it constantly. 



#26 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 07:23 AM

imho when it comes to spending your money: modest sports wagers> 401K> starbucks coffee> cable tv



#27 Billyhoyle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:22 AM

everything is crushing if you do it constantly. 

Consistently, not constantly.  Watching some content from flowrestling every day/every week is much less damaging than placing a bet every day/every week.  


Edited by Billyhoyle, 24 May 2018 - 08:22 AM.


#28 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:31 AM

Consistently, not constantly.  Watching some content from flowrestling every day/every week is much less damaging than placing a bet every day/every week.  

placing a $10 sports wager every week is no more damaging (probably less so imo) than spending an extra $10 on coffee every week is the point. 

 

for some folks, any amount of gambling will lead to trouble. for many more people, wagering it's perfectly fine. it's entertainment spending, just like going to the movies or dining out. since trying to protect the part of the population susceptible to gambling addictions with prohibition has proven to be a miserable failure, the next best policy is to legalize and regulate. 

 

thanks to the freedom loving people of New Jersey and the wise judgment of the Supreme Court, we seem to be finally moving as a country to realizing the latter policy option, which will lead to a safer, healthier and happier population. a real win-win. 



#29 Billyhoyle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 09:33 AM

placing a $10 sports wager every week is no more damaging (probably less so imo) than spending an extra $10 on coffee every week is the point. 

 

for some folks, any amount of gambling will lead to trouble. for many more people, wagering it's perfectly fine. it's entertainment spending, just like going to the movies or dining out. since trying to protect the part of the population susceptible to gambling addictions with prohibition has proven to be a miserable failure, the next best policy is to legalize and regulate. 

 

thanks to the freedom loving people of New Jersey and the wise judgment of the Supreme Court, we seem to be finally moving as a country to realizing the latter policy option, which will lead to a safer, healthier and happier population. a real win-win. 

Nobody puts down a 10 dollar bet a week. I'd say a "reasonable" gambler would bet something like 100/200 on average a week or 5-10K a year.  Well, that person is probably losing about a couple thousand a year depending on the types of bets he's making.  Nobody goes broke by doing that, but it is a complete waste of money.  

 

When you buy coffee, you get a cup of coffee.  When you buy a beer, you get beer. Gambling over a weekend is a fun weekend and part of the entertainment of going to a casino.  Gambling as a habit when you watch sports is throwing money away because you are guaranteed to lose in the long run.  

 

Should it be illegal to do it?  I guess it depends on your politics, but I view companies like draftkings and "services" like state lotteries as parasitic whether or not they are legal.  

 

And I'm not sure why you think a 401K is a bad investment?  Index your money and forget about it or put it in treasury bonds if you unreasonably afraid of stocks. 


Edited by Billyhoyle, 24 May 2018 - 09:40 AM.


#30 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 11:48 AM

Nobody puts down a 10 dollar bet a week. I'd say a "reasonable" gambler would bet something like 100/200 on average a week or 5-10K a year.  Well, that person is probably losing about a couple thousand a year depending on the types of bets he's making.  Nobody goes broke by doing that, but it is a complete waste of money.  

 

When you buy coffee, you get a cup of coffee.  When you buy a beer, you get beer. Gambling over a weekend is a fun weekend and part of the entertainment of going to a casino.  Gambling as a habit when you watch sports is throwing money away because you are guaranteed to lose in the long run.  

 

Should it be illegal to do it?  I guess it depends on your politics, but I view companies like draftkings and "services" like state lotteries as parasitic whether or not they are legal.  

 

And I'm not sure why you think a 401K is a bad investment?  Index your money and forget about it or put it in treasury bonds if you unreasonably afraid of stocks. 

wow you seemed really confused. 

 

this is probably a waste of my time but here goes. 

 

1) I average about $10 a week in sports wagers. so do friends of mine. many other friends gamble less, say only the superbowl and NCAA bball. others wager thru fantasy sports. other friends gamble lots more. maybe you need to meet more people?

2) you get something out of wagering on sports: entertainment. it enhances your enjoyment of a sporting event. maybe not for you but for millions and millions of people it does. if you play only to win then yes, you are asking for trouble, but if you gamble to leverage your enjoyment and only bet what you can afford to lose then you actually win every time. 

3) when you buy starbucks or beer you are paying extra than either making your own coffee or drinking water and staying sober. the point is whether you spend your money to enjoy overpriced coffee or to get a beer buzz is not any more "wrong" than wagering on sports. in fact none of those activities are wrong in moderation. that you can't imagine someone gambling in moderation doesn't mean many people can and do. 

4) I guess since we're talking about gambling policy you can say that whether you support sensible gambling laws depends on your politics but I don't see it as a left/right, liberal/conservative or republican/democrat issue. people from all parts of the political segment can enjoy making a small wager at the Kentucky Derby to ensure that you care about a bunch of horses running in a circle. 

5) what on earth makes you think that I think a 401K is a bad investment? that one is really bizarre. anyway, thank you for the advice, I am familiar with Markowitz' efficient frontier theory and make my 401K allocations accordingly. https://www.investop...entfrontier.asp

6) Draftkings offers a service for sports fans and operates more or less in the free market. they take a very modest rake and compete with other daily fantasy sites. I don't see any problem with what they do. State-supported lotto monopolies are a different story, I don't think much of them either, especially the way they are often marketed by the state to their citizens. that's probably the one thing we agree upon in this dumb discussion. 

 

ok I'm checking out. I hope you have found this enlightening but I'm not holding my breath for any breakthroughs!



#31 Billyhoyle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 01:16 PM

wow you seemed really confused. 

 

this is probably a waste of my time but here goes. 

 

1) I average about $10 a week in sports wagers. so do friends of mine. many other friends gamble less, say only the superbowl and NCAA bball. others wager thru fantasy sports. other friends gamble lots more. maybe you need to meet more people?

2) you get something out of wagering on sports: entertainment. it enhances your enjoyment of a sporting event. maybe not for you but for millions and millions of people it does. if you play only to win then yes, you are asking for trouble, but if you gamble to leverage your enjoyment and only bet what you can afford to lose then you actually win every time. 

3) when you buy starbucks or beer you are paying extra than either making your own coffee or drinking water and staying sober. the point is whether you spend your money to enjoy overpriced coffee or to get a beer buzz is not any more "wrong" than wagering on sports. in fact none of those activities are wrong in moderation. that you can't imagine someone gambling in moderation doesn't mean many people can and do. 

4) I guess since we're talking about gambling policy you can say that whether you support sensible gambling laws depends on your politics but I don't see it as a left/right, liberal/conservative or republican/democrat issue. people from all parts of the political segment can enjoy making a small wager at the Kentucky Derby to ensure that you care about a bunch of horses running in a circle. 

5) what on earth makes you think that I think a 401K is a bad investment? that one is really bizarre. anyway, thank you for the advice, I am familiar with Markowitz' efficient frontier theory and make my 401K allocations accordingly. https://www.investop...entfrontier.asp

6) Draftkings offers a service for sports fans and operates more or less in the free market. they take a very modest rake and compete with other daily fantasy sites. I don't see any problem with what they do. State-supported lotto monopolies are a different story, I don't think much of them either, especially the way they are often marketed by the state to their citizens. that's probably the one thing we agree upon in this dumb discussion. 

 

ok I'm checking out. I hope you have found this enlightening but I'm not holding my breath for any breakthroughs!

From consistent gamblers, you are definitely the exception betting $10 a week.  See the following about just draft kings and fan duel alone:  https://www.legalspo...l-dfs-revenue/ And does a small bet really enhance your enjoyment?  People aren't going to put $10 on a football game once a week. They're going to put like 5 different $10 parlays down or $100 on a single game. 

 

Why does putting money on a sporting event enhance your enjoyment if the purpose isn't to win money?   I bet in march madness pools/ horse races when I attend/vegas, but the goal is to win.  Doing it consistently is idiotic because it really starts to add up when you are losing a couple thousand a year instead of just a couple hundred over a weekend.  

 

The reason you seemed against investment is your assertion that wagers>401k a couple posts ago.  

 

In terms of betting on wrestling...It would be pretty shady if people are going to start betting on point spreads in individual matches.  It's much easier to manipulate a wrestling match than basketball game.  


Edited by Billyhoyle, 24 May 2018 - 01:20 PM.

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#32 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:06 PM

Why does putting money on a sporting event enhance your enjoyment if the purpose isn't to win money?   I bet in march madness pools/ horse races when I attend/vegas, but the goal is to win.  Doing it consistently is idiotic because it really starts to add up when you are losing a couple thousand a year instead of just a couple hundred over a weekend.  

the goal is to win money, duh. that's why it enhances the enjoyment. its why millions of people put $20 bucks in on march madness pools. how can you be confused by this when you literally explain how and why people gamble socially and for fun? whats unclear about putting $20 on a sporting event to add a little skin in the game and raise the stakes making something you otherwise wouldn't care about much more fun? you do that exact thing. it rules. lots of people do it already.

 

ok do this: take your discretionary entertainment fund for the year. lets say it's $5000. now take 10% of that, which is about $10/week. spread it around some sporting events. a few bucks on the superbowl, some on march madness, maybe some fantasy leagues, an occasional MMA fight, and also, a few wrestling matches. did you win? awesome! or did you lose? oh well, it was money well spent. because you had fun watching those sporting events you had money on, right? yes, very fun. many many people gamble on sports in this fun and very normal manner.

 

wow, so glad we could agree and you are no longer so confused. 



#33 Billyhoyle

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:20 PM

the goal is to win money, duh. that's why it enhances the enjoyment. its why millions of people put $20 bucks in on march madness pools. how can you be confused by this when you literally explain how and why people gamble socially and for fun? whats unclear about putting $20 on a sporting event to add a little skin in the game and raise the stakes making something you otherwise wouldn't care about much more fun? you do that exact thing. it rules. lots of people do it already.

 

ok do this: take your discretionary entertainment fund for the year. lets say it's $5000. now take 10% of that, which is about $10/week. spread it around some sporting events. a few bucks on the superbowl, some on march madness, maybe some fantasy leagues, an occasional MMA fight, and also, a few wrestling matches. did you win? awesome! or did you lose? oh well, it was money well spent. because you had fun watching those sporting events you had money on, right? yes, very fun. many many people gamble on sports in this fun and very normal manner.

 

wow, so glad we could agree and you are no longer so confused. 

 

There's no need to call me "confused." I already said that the problem is betting consistently.  Not the super bowl and a couple fights.  If somebody is betting on wrestling matches, football every week, baseball, fights, etc..That is not a good thing.  Most people that bet aren't disciplined like you and doing it $10 at a time.  They're also not degenerate gamblers.  Most fall somewhere in the middle. 

 

There are different categories of gambling.  

 

1.  Barely gambling/not doing it at all (your $10 bets and myself entering a march madness pool/occasionally traveling to vegas would go into this category). 

 

2. Betting consistently with reasonable amounts of money.  This is the group that I think will have issues with this ruling.  They will lose more money than they otherwise would have because it will be easier to do. Instead of being used to build savings, it's going to be thrown away. 

 

3. Being a degenerate gambler that spends all his money on gambling. These people won't be impacted because they are gambling no matter what the law is. 

 

And i don't need to bet to enjoy watching the super bowl or NCAA/international wrestling. 


Edited by Billyhoyle, 24 May 2018 - 03:21 PM.

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#34 KingK0ng

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 12:37 PM

At 10% vig you only have to pick 52.7 winners to turn a profit. Some people can and do make a living off of sports betting. Granted wrestling wagering seems to  have a larger than 10% vigorish...


Edited by KingK0ng, 25 May 2018 - 12:38 PM.


#35 Husker_Du

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 05:47 PM

saying 'consistent' gambling is a degenerative action is like saying everyone that has a beer a couple times a week is an alcoholic.

 

you're making massive assumptions.

 

i started an account on an online betting site with $400 a couple years ago. i'm still playing with that original deposit and i bet several times a week.

 

most of my friends do similarly. in fact i don't know anyone, personally, who has had problems betting on sports. (or cards for that matter).


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#36 TripNSweep

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Posted 27 May 2018 - 06:16 PM

I bet on the NCAAs a few times. One of which was Burroughs senior year when some idiot had him +250 vs the field.  That was like giving away free money. 


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#37 Housebuye

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 10:54 AM

Some people already throw a fit when coaches hold wrestlers out. I can't imagine how upset they'd be if they had money riding on it. Tom Ryan better watch his back.

Yeah. I would be surprised if they had odds up for anything but big events (Big10s, NCAAs, maybe psu vs tOSU and OSU vs Iowa)

#38 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 11:14 AM

2. Betting consistently with reasonable amounts of money.  This is the group that I think will have issues with this ruling.  They will lose more money than they otherwise would have because it will be easier to do. Instead of being used to build savings, it's going to be thrown away. 

you still sound confused. people who gamble on sports aren't "throwing it away". they are spending their entertainment dollars on wagers instead of going to the movies. its the same as any other hobby. you're ignoring the utility that wagering adds to the spectating experience. until you appreciate this point you will forever sound confused when you discuss sports wagering. 

 

people spend way more than $500 on golf every year. to me that is a waste of money. i would never enjoy $500 worth of golf. but if it makes them happy, who am I to judge? but spending $500 or more on sports wagering? that sounds like fun, and it would be wrong to call that a waste. and yet for someone who doesn't enjoy golf or sports wagering would consider them both a waste of money and will instead spend their discretionary entertainment money on something else. and at no point is it appropriate to compare these spends to putting money into a 401K. 

 

so you see, you still sound very confused. sorry. 



#39 Billyhoyle

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:57 PM

you still sound confused. people who gamble on sports aren't "throwing it away". they are spending their entertainment dollars on wagers instead of going to the movies. its the same as any other hobby. you're ignoring the utility that wagering adds to the spectating experience. until you appreciate this point you will forever sound confused when you discuss sports wagering.

people spend way more than $500 on golf every year. to me that is a waste of money. i would never enjoy $500 worth of golf. but if it makes them happy, who am I to judge? but spending $500 or more on sports wagering? that sounds like fun, and it would be wrong to call that a waste. and yet for someone who doesn't enjoy golf or sports wagering would consider them both a waste of money and will instead spend their discretionary entertainment money on something else. and at no point is it appropriate to compare these spends to putting money into a 401K.

so you see, you still sound very confused. sorry.

Things like office pools or pickem/survivor contests between friends are ways to increase the enjoyment of watching sports because you’re creating competition with people that you actually know. If you are consistently placing bets with a bookie just to enjoy a game more, you don’t really like the sport-you like gambling and may have a problem. You’re throwing away money to no real end-like playing online black jack or an online slot machine.

Edited by Billyhoyle, 31 May 2018 - 02:58 PM.


#40 Jaroslav Hasek

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 03:45 PM

Things like office pools or pickem/survivor contests between friends are ways to increase the enjoyment of watching sports because you’re creating competition with people that you actually know. If you are consistently placing bets with a bookie just to enjoy a game more, you don’t really like the sport-you like gambling and may have a problem. You’re throwing away money to no real end-like playing online black jack or an online slot machine.

so its either office pools or consistently placing bets with bookies and you have a problem? LOL you are so hopelessly confused. but the joke is on me because of all the time I wasted with you on this thread. the only smart bet would have been to never have engaged in this pointless exchange. live and learn I guess!






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