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dmm53

Senior World Team Trials

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I find this new WTT system stupid, confusing and it just alienates fans.  I was watching all day to see Dieringer and Valencia wrestle at 79kg in the finals.  I'm still not absolutely sure when they are supposed to wrestle.  Do they realize how ambiguous and confusing this sounds:   Tomorrow they wrestle in the finals so they can wrestle in Final X?

It’s really very simple. As an example, tonight Daton Fix won the finals of challenge tournament of world team trials, to get to the best of three finals of the world team trials tomorrow, to get to the best of three at one of the final x competitions, which all take place on different dates and different locations that are super easy to keep track of. What could possibly be confusing about that?

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It is a little confusing, but also because it's the first year.  Once we go through one it'll be very easy to figure out. 

 

As far as "alienating fans" I disagree - the whole reason they are doing it is because the old system had no fans.  Nobody went to WTTs, it had no fans. Final X accomplishes two big things:

 

1)  The previous world medalist is now on a level playing field with regards to rest at Final X

2)  They are spreading out the events to different fan bases to see what the interest level is.

 

Will it work?  I'm not sure, but it's certainly worth a shot because the old system was a failure in terms of engagement and people showing up.  So far the online engagement for US Open and WTTs has been just as good as any other year imo.  Stevenson and Fix have been a big boost to storylines. 

Really?  Normally I watch WTTs, but this year I didn't even realize it was today until I woke up this morning.  I only watched a couple of the matches.  How is the attendance this year in comparison to last?

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It is a little confusing, but also because it's the first year.  Once we go through one it'll be very easy to figure out. 

 

As far as "alienating fans" I disagree - the whole reason they are doing it is because the old system had no fans.  Nobody went to WTTs, it had no fans. Final X accomplishes two big things:

 

1)  The previous world medalist is now on a level playing field with regards to rest at Final X

2)  They are spreading out the events to different fan bases to see what the interest level is.

 

Will it work?  I'm not sure, but it's certainly worth a shot because the old system was a failure in terms of engagement and people showing up.  So far the online engagement for US Open and WTTs has been just as good as any other year imo.  Stevenson and Fix have been a big boost to storylines.

I agree. This system is obviously more time consuming and may seem a little confusing at first, but IMO it was well thought out and will further ensure the best wrestler at each weight. (FWIW, Rich Bender did an eloquent job explaining this new system in an interview several months ago. Looks like it's falling right into place.)

 

Anyway, I'm totally enjoying this new system so far.

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It's more or less created a kind of "playoffs". You have your qualifiers. US Open as a first round. This round and then the Final X. I can see a good argument for the final to be all at one site. But I can see the argument for this set up as well.

Edited by Lurker

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Seems to me like there's been plenty of coverage...     In fact you are posting in a forum with multiple threads discussing it, most of which were started before today.  Including this one...

 

Maybe the close timing to BTS made it get lost in the shuffle a bit, but the first I heard of someone not knowing it was happening this weekend. 

 

No idea about the attendance, heard some crowd noise when Minny guys are wrestling but the Flo coverage isn't showing anything but shots of the mat that I can remember. 

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Seems odd to me that they have two rounds of best of three now. I think it would make sense to do just the final X best of three and do WTT all on one day. I thought I had a good grasp on the new system but at first I couldn't figure out why some were wrestling finals tonight and some were wrestling Sunday. Definitely confusing for the casual fan

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One additional wrinkle is that there will be true 3rd matches at final X in some cases. At most weights, the results tomorrow will determine if there will be a true 3rd match or not, so the guy in line for 3rd will be rooting hard for the guy who beat him today, so he can have a chance to make the national team. Here's the summary:

 

57 Sanders will be rooting for Fix. If Fix wins, Sanders will get a true 3rd match vs Ramos.

 

61 Graff will be rooting for Nico to get a true 3rd match vs Garrett.

 

65 Simmons will for sure be in a true 3rd match vs Steiber or Eierman (whoever loses tomorrow)

 

70 Hilday will be rooting for Frank to get a 3rd place match vs. Chamberlain

 

74 Gnatt will be rooting for Nazar to get a 3rd place match vs IMar

 

79 Jackson will be rooting for Dieringer to get a 3rd place match vs Zahid.

 

86 Downey will for sure be in a 3rd place match against either Perry or Reenan

 

92 McCall will be rooting for Winn to get a 3rd place match vs Zilmer.

 

97 Walz will be rooting for Gadson to get a 3rd place match vs Schafer

 

125 Gable will be rooting for Nelson to get a 3rd place match vs Coon.

 

Or to look at this from a other perspective, all the guys who are being rooted for (Fix, Nico, Frank, Nazar, Dieringer, Winn, Gadson, and Nelson) are guaranteed to make the National team, because they beat the guy who came back for 3rd. So those 8 have joined the 10 sitting in Final X as 2018 National team members.

Edited by rpm002

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All times shown are Central.

Friday, May 18

10:00 am – 2:00 pm: UWW Junior Freestyle: 1st Round, Quarterfinals and Consolation (3 MATS)

10:00 am – 2:30 pm: Senior Women’s Freestyle: 1st Round, Quarterfinals and Consolation (2 MATS)

4:00 pm – 7:30 pm: UWW Junior Freestyle: Semifinals, Finals, 3rd Place, Consolation (3 MATS)

4:00 pm – 8:00 pm: Senior Women’s Freestyle: Semi-Finals, Finals, Consolation and 3rd Place (2 MATS)

 

Saturday, May 19

10:00 am – 2:30 pm: Senior Men’s Freestyle: 1st Round, Quarterfinals and Consolation (2 MATS)

1:00 pm – 4:45 pm: Senior Women’s Freestyle: Best 2 out of 3 Championship

1:00 pm – 4:45 pm: UWW Junior Freestyle: Best 2 out of 3 Championship

5:00 pm – 9:00 pm: Senior Men’s Freestyle: Semifinals, Finals and Consolation, Cons-Semi and 3rd Place Matches (2 MATS)

 

Sunday, May 20

12:00 pm – 3:00 pm: Senior Men’s Freestyle: Best 2 out of 3 Championship

 

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Seems odd to me that they have two rounds of best of three now. I think it would make sense to do just the final X best of three and do WTT all on one day. I thought I had a good grasp on the new system but at first I couldn't figure out why some were wrestling finals tonight and some were wrestling Sunday. Definitely confusing for the casual fan

 

 

Because one of the main points was to eliminate the "the guy sitting in the finals has a HUGE advantage" part - you do it all the same day he is fresh against a guy who had a bunch of matches. . 

 

Also the new UWW rules are multi-day weighins over two days, WTT mirrors that.  I think even the person who has to sit out weighs in twice.

 

Again, while I agree it is a little odd and confusing this year - once you learn the system once, it isn't that hard to understand moving forward. 

Edited by Gantry

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Wasn’t there a year that Dake wrestled Dieringer, Howe and Taylor and then had to wrestle Burroughs? Maybe iMar was in there...

The year before Rio I think he went through Sponseller, Howe and Taylor to wrestle Burroughs in the final. Taylor I think wrestled Caldwell and maybe one of the Valencias?

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If you wanted to see all the matches, you'd have to go to the US Open, the WTT and to three different Final X locations. Surely they could concentrate the matches and still avoid an unfair advantage (but still a bye) for the returning medalists.

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If you wanted to see all the matches, you'd have to go to the US Open, the WTT and to three different Final X locations. Surely they could concentrate the matches and still avoid an unfair advantage (but still a bye) for the returning medalists.

 

True, but again so few people went to either US Open and WTT as fans, let alone both.  One of the big reasons they are trying it is because US Open and WTT consistently have really low attendance numbers.  The old system was a failure in terms of generating live attendance. 

 

They are trying to have more freestyle events spread out over a longer period of time in wrestling hotbeds - more discussion more people attending live etc. 

 

Look what we have now - we get a Ramos/Fix and Deringer/Valencia best of three situation that we wouldn't have before, this is exciting stuff.  And after we get even more matchups with those winners taking on Gilman and Dake respectively.  They are hoping that generates more discussion, more storylines, more people tuned into Final X, more weekends for people to follow senior freestyle, etc.

 

Again, I'm not sure if this is going to work or not, but it is absolutely worth a shot.  Fan interest in senior level freestyle, especially in terms of live attendance, has been very low for a very long time.  If it crashes and burns, I'm sure they'll just go to back to the Open/WTT setup with a second day for finals.  So far, despite a few smaller issues I've liked it.  We'll see how Final X goes...

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