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Well the main problem Dake has faced is some guy named Jordan Burroughs. With the exception of Snyder no one else was making the team if Burroughs was the incumbent they had to unseat. If people think Valencia has a shot, fine. That's why they wrestle the matches. But it seems every guy Dake faces is supposedly the future. 

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I'll say it again--Zahid is the answer.  The question--the next American to win multiple world gold medals.    

The answer to your question will be Lee or Fix - to be decided later

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Does Zahid have more length than

Taylor?

 

Functionally, yes. His torso is shorter, his limbs are longer, and he's faster.  Dake may be able to chest lock him, but it will be like trying to turn a neckless giraffe with how much base Zahid can create with his long arms and legs.

 

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Someone will have to stay home in 2020 at 189. Taylor or Zahid. I didn't think I would be talking like that about Zahid so soon. Unless Taylor can grow into 213:-) Can he beat Snyder? From what I heard no. Dake will go down and try and beat an old JB. But in two years there will be new younger guns that are better and hungry! Good problem with the team USA! This is the best season I have ever seen with our team! 

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Snyder would eat two Taylors for breakfast. Let's get real. There's no way anyone is moving UP to try to take Snyder out. The gap will only widen with age and a practically nonexistent par terre game at the moment on Snyder's side.

 

One other guy to throw in the mix at 189 is Nickal. While I don't think he'll be the guy, maybe ever, you can't discount the possibility that he becomes a freestyle savant a la Saitiev if all he does is train freestyle. He has the balls, creativity, and athleticism to make tremendous progress in the style quickly, in my opinion.

 

As for Zahid, I want to see more first before we proclaim him the new anything, but damn, what he did to Ringer, was impressive. In the back of my mind, I still have memories of the complete and utter beating the Iranian kid gave him two BTSes ago and some of the struggles he had more recently than that in college, where he won but not impressively or with certainty. Just trying to get a balanced picture of the young stud, not saying he's not as good as he looks.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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The answer to your question will be Lee or Fix - to be decided later

Both are amazing.  So is Steveson.  But no one has more pure talent than Zahid.  He has incredible athleticism to go with a high wrestling IQ.  He's not exactly like Burroughs but there are obvious similarities.  

 

W-Nerd:  The only folk result that matters with Zahid is his clear cut finals victory over an almost equally talented Mark Hall.  Hall was one of the top five wrestlers in the country this season and Zahid shot him off the mat.  Now he's done the same to Ringer.  When he beats Dake, will you jump on the bandwagon?  

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W-Nerd:  The only folk result that matters with Zahid is his clear cut finals victory over an almost equally talented Mark Hall.  Hall was one of the top five wrestlers in the country this season and Zahid shot him off the mat.  Now he's done the same to Ringer.  When he beats Dake, will you jump on the bandwagon?  

 

I don't think he'll beat Dake but if he beats Dake, how can you not? Dake has beaten world champions and Olympic champions already in his career. Zahid taking Ringer out and then Dake would be an enormous statement. I don't think ti's a good matchup for Zahid though.

 

As for pure talent, I agree he's special. His victory over Hall was outstanding. But if you discount his other matches completely, you're committing the same mistake as those who only look at Logan Stieber's gold medal and forget about the rest of his very weird career so far. You have to look at the complete picture because consistency is what makes multi-time world champs, as you're calling for Zahid, not just talent.

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Ok.  Let me back pedal slightly.  I think he has the talent to be a Burroughs/Monday/Kemp/Schultz type.  Obviously two things matter--health and continued development.  I do think he can beat Dake but Dake has an amazing skill set in his own right.  Still Zahid is big at the weight and that always helps.  He's larger than Ringer and Dake.  

 

Stieber's career has been weird especially since he won his world title.  One wonders how much it hurts him not to have Lou Rosselli around?  

 

Folk is such a grind that everyone has the occasional struggle--except Cael.  

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I agree he is physically special. His oversized limbs and ridiculous balance present a new puzzle for almost anyone. It's like his growth was turbocharged throughout HS but he retained the catlike quickness of his freshman and sophomore years like a mutant.

 

There are guys in folk who neutralized a lot of what makes Zahid so good. Myles Amine comes to mind. Except for one major beating last year, every other time they've wrestled has been close, if I recall correctly, 1 or 2 pointers. I think they've wrestled five times. Obviously, Hall wrestled him very close two out of three times, then got completely outclassed at NCAAs (I think that match is the reason why Hall is sitting this season out). One thing Amine and Hall have in common is outstanding hips. Both guys are a bear to take down and have excellent balance. Which is pretty much Dake's main asset. What Dake has that neither of the other two guys have is a  proven ability to take down elite senior competition. Dake/Zahid is suddenly my most anticipated match-up for Final X, for sure.

 

I can't figure out Stieber. When he's on, he's our best guy at the weight and capable of beating anyone, even at 143, in my opinion. But he's on at that peak level only 20% of the time.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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What are Dake’s marquee wins in the past couple years? He beat some returning medalists at the World Cup, right? Has he beaten any of the top Russians at international tournaments?

 

I think it’s tough to say how this match will go because Zahid and Dake have both done so well recently.

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What are Dake’s marquee wins in the past couple years? He beat some returning medalists at the World Cup, right? Has he beaten any of the top Russians at international tournaments?

 

I think it’s tough to say how this match will go because Zahid and Dake have both done so well recently.

 

Dake has recent wins over Hasanov, Kurbanov, Zaseev, Dieringer, and a few others.  His only recent loss came at Yarygin to Gadzhimagomedov, current world #1.  Zahid's last loss in freestyle was at junior world's last summer to Naifonov, who just won Euro seniors @ 86kg. 

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Dake's most recent win that matters the most is over JB. Maybe that's not recent enough, but anyone capable of putting even just one on JB is pretty friggin' special.

Truth! What is he like 130-5? Marable, Tsurgush, Dake and Gedeav and Z.  Snyder is like 80-6. Gatsalov twice, Gaz 1, Aldorov 1, Varner 1, Boulkteav 1

 

Are we going to continue getting guys like this with the next generation? Will it be the norm?

Edited by PRyan2012

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Truth! What is he like 130-5? Marable, Tsurgush, Dake and Gedeav and Z.  Snyder is like 80-6. Gatsalov twice, Gaz 1, Aldorov 1, Varner 1, Boulkteav 1

 

Are we going to continue getting guys like this with the next generation? Will it be the norm?

Didn't Snyder also lose to Gazyumov a month or two before he beat him in the Olympic finals?  

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I agree he is physically special. His oversized limbs and ridiculous balance present a new puzzle for almost anyone. It's like his growth was turbocharged throughout HS but he retained the catlike quickness of his freshman and sophomore years like a mutant.

 

There are guys in folk who neutralized a lot of what makes Zahid so good. Myles Amine comes to mind. Except for one major beating last year, every other time they've wrestled has been close, if I recall correctly, 1 or 2 pointers. I think they've wrestled five times. Obviously, Hall wrestled him very close two out of three times, then got completely outclassed at NCAAs (I think that match is the reason why Hall is sitting this season out). One thing Amine and Hall have in common is outstanding hips. Both guys are a bear to take down and have excellent balance. Which is pretty much Dake's main asset. What Dake has that neither of the other two guys have is a  proven ability to take down elite senior competition. Dake/Zahid is suddenly my most anticipated match-up for Final X, for sure.

 

I can't figure out Stieber. When he's on, he's our best guy at the weight and capable of beating anyone, even at 143, in my opinion. But he's on at that peak level only 20% of the time.

And Hall scrambled out of a sure TD and almost turned it into his own TD in that finals match where he was soundly beaten.  Zahid is best when things are clean.  Amine and Hall made the finishes less than clean and it resulted in matches where the much better wrestler was giving up points he shouldn't have in some of their matchups.  

 

I love Dieringer.  But he does not scramble.  And he does not counter.  He blows through guys or he doesn't.

 

Zahid might be Dake because he is just that good.  But if he beats Dake it will be with different tactics and a different skill set than he beat Dieringer with.  I'd say the most relevant part of the Dieringer-Valencia matchup to a Dake matchup is how good Z was defensively and the way he never let Dieringer near a leg.  I think he can shut Dake down like that and try to pick his spots and win that match.  But I think if he goes hard at Dake he gets countered and beat.

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And Hall scrambled out of a sure TD and almost turned it into his own TD in that finals match where he was soundly beaten.  Zahid is best when things are clean.  Amine and Hall made the finishes less than clean and it resulted in matches where the much better wrestler was giving up points he shouldn't have in some of their matchups.  

 

I love Dieringer.  But he does not scramble.  And he does not counter.  He blows through guys or he doesn't.

 

Zahid might be Dake because he is just that good.  But if he beats Dake it will be with different tactics and a different skill set than he beat Dieringer with.  I'd say the most relevant part of the Dieringer-Valencia matchup to a Dake matchup is how good Z was defensively and the way he never let Dieringer near a leg.  I think he can shut Dake down like that and try to pick his spots and win that match.  But I think if he goes hard at Dake he gets countered and beat.

 

Good assessment. I believe Dake WILL score takedowns off his own offense or counter shots in this series more than once. And Zahid WILL get in on multiple great scoring opportunities each match. The key, as others are alluding to, is how well Dake's world class scrambling and counter scoring matches up against Zahid's length that is virtually impossible to score against once he's in on those great shots in FREESTYLE scrambles.

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Both are amazing.  So is Steveson.  But no one has more pure talent than Zahid.  He has incredible athleticism to go with a high wrestling IQ.  He's not exactly like Burroughs but there are obvious similarities.  

 

W-Nerd:  The only folk result that matters with Zahid is his clear cut finals victory over an almost equally talented Mark Hall.  Hall was one of the top five wrestlers in the country this season and Zahid shot him off the mat.  Now he's done the same to Ringer.  When he beats Dake, will you jump on the bandwagon?  

The reason I would say Fix or Lee before Zahid or Steveson is due to the competition they will have to get by both domestically and internationally to get to those World/Olympic Golds.  Fix or Lee may already be the best in the US and I think they can compete well with the world's best right now.  If Zahid beats Dake then maybe he is on that level too and I am underestimating him.  I don't think that will happen.  I expect that he is still a bit behind Dake and DT also.  He is young and developing so that could change.  As for Steveson it is amazing that he is where he is at the age of 17.  He will make vast strides over the next couple of years and I expect he will pass the best we have in the US even Gwiz who is great.  Getting to the top of the podium for him will require that he gets past two of the best heavyweights ever and both of them are relatively young (especially Geno P) and still improving themselves.  I do hope Gable gets there.

Edited by lu1979

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What are Dake’s marquee wins in the past couple years? He beat some returning medalists at the World Cup, right? Has he beaten any of the top Russians at international tournaments?

 

I think it’s tough to say how this match will go because Zahid and Dake have both done so well recently.

 

Well, there was that tech decision against Dieringer in Paris...

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The reason I would say Fix or Lee before Zahid or Steveson is due to the competition they will have to get by both domestically and internationally to get to those World/Olympic Golds.  Fix or Lee may already be the best in the US and I think they can compete well with the world's best right now.  If Zahid beats Dake then maybe he is on that level too and I am underestimating him.  I don't think that will happen.  I expect that he is still a bit behind Dake and DT also.  He is young and developing so that could change.  As for Steveson it is amazing that he is where he is at the age of 17.  He will make vast strides over the next couple of years and I expect he will pass the best we have in the US even Gwiz who is great.  Getting to the top of the podium for him will require that he gets past two of the best heavyweights ever and both of them are relatively young (especially Geno P) and still improving themselves.  I do hope Gable gets there.

Fix and Lee have a world Silver medalist (Gilman) and a world team member (Ramos).  That is more than either Steveson or Zahid has to deal with.  

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