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You have? When? At what level?

 

In DI he went 133-4, with 3 of those losses to Derek St. John. The other was to Vollrath(his freshman year). All 4 were in his 1st 2 seasons.

 

In High School he was a 4x Finalist and 3X Champ. He was a Fargo AA 9 times over that span, and was a 4X Champ in 2009 and 2010.

 

In Freestyle, he was the Junior National Champ in 2012 and 2013. He lost in the 2nd round to the returning silver medalist in 2012 and took silver in 2013. After graduating, he has taken 3rd(losing to Howe), 3rd(losing to Dake) and now 3rd again(losing to Valencia) at the last 3 trials. At the last 2 US Opens he took 2nd to Dake this year and 3rd to Dake the year before.

 

Of those who is "far less talented" than Valencia? What other losses am I missing?????

Less talented. At this point maybe all of them. But up until this point you make a good case. Maybe, just maybe, Valencia has turned corner. If so, these "turning of the corner" events are not that common so again, valid point

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You have?  When? At what level?

 

In DI he went 133-4, with 3 of those losses to Derek St. John.  The other was to Vollrath(his freshman year).  All 4 were in his 1st 2 seasons.

 

In High School he was a Finalist and 3X Champ.  He was a Fargo AA 9 times over that span, and was a 4X Champ in 2009 and 2010.

 

In Freestyle, he was the Junior National Champ in 2012 and 2013.  He lost in the 2nd round to the returning silver medalist in 2012 and took silver in 2013.  After graduating, he has taken 3rd(losing to Howe), 3rd(losing to Dake) and now 3rd again(losing to Valencia) at the last 3 trials. At the last 2 US Opens he took 2nd to Dake this year and 3rd to Dake the year before.

 

Of those who is "far less talented" than Valencia?  What other losses am I missing?????

Being an international forum, I was mainly thinking of some of the freestyle matches like with Iran guy at the Ukraine tourney last year, and the India guy at world cup in 16.  You can throw in Howe and also Nazar K.    Dake  and Yazdanichararti are the only two who I think are Valencia level or above.

 

Since you brought up college highschool folkstyle and cadet and juniors

 

The guys in college were not at Valencia level.  The D2 guy he lost to not at that level either.

 

High school???  I dont think anyone would put Zehner, Sueflohn, Thielke, Libatore, Keliher,Squires, Hodgkins, Ness ...   In the same talent class as Valencia

 

All were very good wrestlers, just not in same league as Zahid..... in my opinion.

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Being an international forum, I was mainly thinking of some of the freestyle matches like with Iran guy at the Ukraine tourney last year, and the India guy at world cup in 16.  You can throw in Howe and also Nazar K.    Dake  and Yazdanichararti are the only two who I think are Valencia level or above.

 

Since you brought up college highschool folkstyle and cadet and juniors

 

The guys in college were not at Valencia level.  The D2 guy he lost to not at that level either.

 

High school???  I dont think anyone would put Zehner, Sueflohn, Thielke, Libatore, Keliher,Squires, Hodgkins, Ness ...   In the same talent class as Valencia

 

All were very good wrestlers, just not in same league as Zahid..... in my opinion.

You made it seem like he was just dropping matches to "FAR" less talented guys.

 

1.)I would argue that senior level guys from Iran and India were much more proven at that point. Definitely NOT "far" less talented.

 

2.)Howe won a silver at the Yarygin and had super tight matches with both Burroughs and Dake.  Definitely NOT "far" less talented.

 

3.)He lost to Nazar in 2012 on a last second pushout.  Considering Nazar was a Ukrainian born citizen that had almost solely focused on Free, again I would NOT say "far" less talented.

 

4.)St. John was a 4X AA and was the Champ the Dieringer's freshman year.  Again, NOT "far" less talented.

 

5.) Vollrath is the ONLY guy so far that fits your bill.  Shame on Dieringer for taking that loss as a DI freshman.

 

6.) What DII guy?  If my memory serves he wrecked Joey Davis 9-0!

 

In High School, ALL of those guys listed had top notch careers and most were high level recruits.  Again, "far" less talented is a stretch.

 

With the above said, Dieringer has won exponentially more than he lost.  My argument was two part.  1.)Dispelling the notion that Dieringer periodically just dropped matches.  2.)"Far less talented" was a ridiculous statement.  I would not argue if you want to put many of them below Valencia.  But, "far" is just WRONG!

Edited by MSU158

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You made it seem like he was just dropping matches to "FAR" less talented guys.

 

1.)I would argue that senior level guys from Iran and India were much more proven at that point. Definitely NOT "far" less talented.

 

2.)Howe won a silver at the Yarygin and had super tight matches with both Burroughs and Dake.  Definitely NOT "far" less talented.

 

3.)He lost to Nazar in 2012 on a last second pushout.  Considering Nazar was a Ukrainian born citizen that had almost solely focused on Free, again I would NOT say "far" less talented.

 

4.)St. John was a 4X AA and was the Champ the Dieringer's freshman year.  Again, NOT "far" less talented.

 

5.) Vollrath is the ONLY guy so far that fits your bill.  Shame on Dieringer for taking that loss as a DI freshman.

 

6.) What DII guy?  If my memory serves he wrecked Joey Davis 9-0!

 

In High School, ALL of those guys listed had top notch careers and most were high level recruits.  Again, "far" less talented is a stretch.

....

With the above said, Dieringer has won exponentially more than he lost.  My argument was two part.  1.)Dispelling the notion that Dieringer periodically just dropped matches.  2.)"Far less talented" was a ridiculous statement.  I would not argue if you want to put many of them below Valencia.  But, "far" is just WRONG!

Its my opinion....who cares.. I stand by it.

 

You must have a lot of time on your hands to write all of this just to argue the definition of "far"

 

hint ... the D2 guy ended up being the D2 champ that year.  You seem to be a Dieringer historian... look it up

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Its my opinion....who cares.. I stand by it.

 

You must have a lot of time on your hands to write all of this just to argue the definition of "far"

 

hint ... the D2 guy ended up being the D2 champ that year.  You seem to be a Dieringer historian... look it up

Did you really just Paul Jenn me using a 5th year Senior that went 2(JuCo),3,2,1 and won a 3-2 match over a TF in December of his redshirt year?  How many other losses did Alex have that year?

 

Also, I am really good at research and my data retention is quite high.  So, it doesn't take much time to rebut your comments!  ;)  I simply had a problem with the tone of your comment.  You painted it out that Dierenger(at least the way I read it) would periodically just not fully "show" up.  That just wasn't the case.  In fact, I would argue that Vollrath was the only match he lost that he was a favorite in, let alone a clear favorite!

 

 

Edited to add:  Let's not forget that Alex wasn't some super recruit.  He was 15 and lower on most boards.  That isn't something to scoff at, but considering James Green was 16 and expectations weren't 133-4, let's not act like Alex periodically took time off and lost to "lesser" opponents.

Edited by MSU158

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Did you really just Paul Jenn me using a 5th year Senior that went 2(JuCo),3,2,1 and won a 3-2 match over a TF in December of his redshirt year?  How many other losses did Alex have that year?

 

Also, I am really good at research and my data retention is quite high.  So, it doesn't take much time to rebut your comments!  ;)

 

Yep, Paul Jenn'd you.  TJ was also less talented than Zahid. 

You are the one who wanted to go back and compare Alex's high school and college folkstyle accomplishments in an international forum comment that had little to do about Alex and more to do about Zahid.  I was just stating  recent international results of opponents that Alex lost to that were far less talented than Zahid.   However, if it makes you sleep better, I will go back and edit my post to state "somewhat less talented"  instead of "far less talented" (although I believe near all were "far less).

 

To answer your question, because you want  to"split hairs" with words,  Alex sustained one other loss that "year"

 

LOL  

 

good day!

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Growing up with Zahids family I am always pulling for him. And he does have a shot at beating Dake if he can get to his legs. And that's mainly because as we seen with Mark Hall Zahid finishes low.

If he comes up Dake is going to eat him up with the opportunities.

Both have an amazing ability to counter leg attacks. Zahid has always been hard to finish on all the way back to high school and Dake is Dake.

Not sure his time is yet, but even if he goes down like the Titanic I'm team Z

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Growing up with Zahids family I am always pulling for him. And he does have a shot at beating Dake if he can get to his legs. And that's mainly because as we seen with Mark Hall Zahid finishes low.

If he comes up Dake is going to eat him up with the opportunities.

Both have an amazing ability to counter leg attacks. Zahid has always been hard to finish on all the way back to high school and Dake is Dake.

Not sure his time is yet, but even if he goes down like the Titanic I'm team Z

Agree. While not as close as you have have been following all that Monster Garage group since they were tiny.

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Maybe not this time, but within 18 months Valencia beats Dake.

Taylor never will.

 

Valencia will get some takedowns with his low level attacks and overpower Dake a time or two. Hope Valencia can spend some time with John Smith on technique to refine things. He may be older but Smith is the guy who can work with Valencia on finesse to go with his drive.

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Maybe not this time, but within 18 months Valencia beats Dake.

Taylor never will.

 

Valencia will get some takedowns with his low level attacks and overpower Dake a time or two. Hope Valencia can spend some time with John Smith on technique to refine things. He may be older but Smith is the guy who can work with Valencia on finesse to go with his drive.

 

You're probably right, but Dake would never beat Taylor up at 86kg now. 

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Maybe not this time, but within 18 months Valencia beats Dake.

Taylor never will.

 

Valencia will get some takedowns with his low level attacks and overpower Dake a time or two. Hope Valencia can spend some time with John Smith on technique to refine things. He may be older but Smith is the guy who can work with Valencia on finesse to go with his drive.

 

 

Maybe, but Ringer is john Smith's guy. Doubt he wants to put more distance between the two.

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Just like he would never beat him up at 165. Or just like he would never beat him up at 86 kg the last time he beat him.

Why'd you have to bring facts into this?  He had a great narrative going before your facts messed it up.

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Zahid's last name should be Alvarez.  That way he would be at the top of the alphabetical list but with a first name at the last.  Kind of cool.  He probably likes it the way it is I'm guessing!!

 

mspart

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Zahid's last name should be Alvarez. That way he would be at the top of the alphabetical list but with a first name at the last. Kind of cool. He probably likes it the way it is I'm guessing!!

 

mspart

What in tarnation

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Just like he would never beat him up at 165. Or just like he would never beat him up at 86 kg the last time he beat him.

 

 

Dake looked kind of slow and clunky at 86 Kg. Just saying. He looks better at 79 Kg, and even better still at the Oly weight of 74 Kg. But Burroughs. 

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