Jump to content

Recommended Posts

In that sense, a high school and collegiate heavyweight can be successful and among the "elite" when relying purely on strength and power where as the lower weights require you to be more refined, precise, and patient all the time just to be competitive. Synder wrestled Coon like a big man the first time around and lost because of it. The next two times he wrestled like a lightweight (which is something he does regularly and one of the reasons why he's so freaking good) and won because of it. This is why you will see a good 200lber whoop on good 250+lbers and not be surprised, where was you will almost never see a good 120lbs kid whoop on a good 135-140lber. Like you said big guys have to "relearn" technique to get to the upper most echelon. Lightweights have had to learn it much earlier and always have it just to compete.

I think I saw it differently...in the first match he wrestled like he normally wrestled, with a much higher rate of attack than in the last two, without success. In the last two he played position and was much more cautious and selective in his scoring attempts, which is less like how he normally wrestles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think he'll beat Dake but if he beats Dake, how can you not? Dake has beaten world champions and Olympic champions already in his career. Zahid taking Ringer out and then Dake would be an enormous statement. I don't think ti's a good matchup for Zahid though.

 

As for pure talent, I agree he's special. His victory over Hall was outstanding. But if you discount his other matches completely, you're committing the same mistake as those who only look at Logan Stieber's gold medal and forget about the rest of his very weird career so far. You have to look at the complete picture because consistency is what makes multi-time world champs, as you're calling for Zahid, not just talent.

 

Stieber is 27 years old, kinda have to wonder if he's not already "topped out" and is on the downward slide.

Edited by TobusRex

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Woohoo good one. I'm sure the feeling is mutual when it comes to humans in general.

 

Maybe it's you that is too stupid to come up with a strong enough rebuttal and you just counter that the person arguing with you is too stupid to understand your point of view as a deflection for your own stupidity.

Validation! You rocked it! You are a human that I hate just because you are indicative of the species, and wrestling has nothing to do with it. BTW, I am not special, I am also indicative of our species. We hate each other for dozens of reasons. As big as race and religion and nationality, and as small as favorite wrestling team. As a species we are savage AF, and kind of pathetic. Edited by sgallan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Validation! You rocked it! You are a human that I hate just because you are indicative of the species, and wrestling has nothing to do with it. BTW, I am not special, I am also indicative of our species. We hate each other for dozens of reasons. As big as race and religion and nationality, and as small as favorite wrestling team. As a species we are savage AF, and kind of pathetic.

Lol

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Both are amazing. So is Steveson. But no one has more pure talent than Zahid. He has incredible athleticism to go with a high wrestling IQ. He's not exactly like Burroughs but there are obvious similarities.

 

W-Nerd: The only folk result that matters with Zahid is his clear cut finals victory over an almost equally talented Mark Hall. Hall was one of the top five wrestlers in the country this season and Zahid shot him off the mat. Now he's done the same to Ringer. When he beats Dake, will you jump on the bandwagon?

Top 5? Very debatable.

 

1a.retherford

1b.snyder

1c.nolf

4.valencia

5.gross

6.nickal

7.coon

8.IMar

9.Joseph-I know he beat IMar when it mattered but he was still 2-3 against him.

10.lee-sans knee brace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You call it trolling. I call it pointing out hypocrisy.

Don't care what another human thinks. We all suck. You apparently hate because of perceived hypocrisy. I would add it to the really long list of reasons to hate, but it is already there. Edited by sgallan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't care what another human thinks. We all suck. You apparently hate because of perceived hypocrisy. I would add it to the really long list of reasons to hate, but it is already there.

Lol good to know. You're alright in my book, but that doesn't matter cuz you don't care what I or anyone else think. It's all good. Carve your own path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol good to know. You're alright in my book, but that doesn't matter cuz you don't care what I or anyone else think. It's all good. Carve your own path.

Now me, I hate passive aggressive. Which is ironic and hypocritical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Functionally, yes. His torso is shorter, his limbs are longer, and he's faster. Dake may be able to chest lock him, but it will be like trying to turn a neckless giraffe with how much base Zahid can create with his long arms and legs.

 

147262314.jpg

Yes but Zahid's short neck prevents him from reaching tree foliage. Dake is neckless also, but he can suplay trees.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Edited by swoopdown

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just watched the 2nd match with Ringer and Zahid. No way it will be that easy against Dake.

True, if, and it is a big if, Dake quits letting things get to his head, wrestles that smart, sometimes ugly, but effective style he is so good at. Dake should be a solid favorite but the bravado that got him 4 NCAA's seems to backfire when he isn't in total control. His weakness isn't skills, it is the mind game. A strength in college seems to be a liability now.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What has Gwiz done to put him firmly ahead of Gilman?  What has any of the other heavies done to put them ahead of Ramos.  USA heavy is a very unproven group outside of Gwiz's one bronze.  And you can guess that Dake is better but he's never made a team.  Sure he was behind JB for most of those years (and behind bronze medalist Cox in the other year), but you can't just coat tail him to JB's medals because he gets 2nd in the USA.  

 

Maybe Gwiz/Coon and Dake/Dieringer is better than Gilman/Ramos, but not by much.  And to act like the difference between Fix/Lee and Steveson/Zahid is domestic competition is absurd (and that's the post I replied to).  Fix/Lee are simply a far higher level than the other two.

 

I don't necessarily think Gwiz is firmly ahead of Gilman, but he does have a Yarygin bronze and Pan Am gold in addition to his world bronze.  He also, with a couple of exceptions, essentially only loses to the best.  Gilman since blitzing to the finals last year has had a number of puzzling losses.  I don't dislike Gilman, I just get the feeling that he's headed for a Herbert-esque career trajectory.  He's too predictable. And Ramos hasn't won a tournament outside of american soil since the illustrious Paris Grand Prix in 2015.  

 

Why would you consider Fix/Lee on a different level than Steveson and Zahid? That doesn't make any sense.  Steveson dominated junior world's at 17 and hasn't lost an age group match in, I don't know, ever?

 

Daton didn't win Juniors until he was 19 and a half, and didn't come close to placing at U23's, a tournament that Richie Lewis won... 

 

Zahid wrestled up a weight at 84kg and took 2nd at Juniors losing only to Naifonov (Euro senior gold just a few weeks ago), and Zahid just dominated someone at a higher level than any victory Fix has ever had. 

 

Lee -- jury is still out.  We've never even seen him wrestle above 50kg. I think he's the best of the bunch that we have at the lighter weights, but it's impossible to say if he doesn't even compete.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't necessarily think Gwiz is firmly ahead of Gilman, but he does have a Yarygin bronze and Pan Am gold in addition to his world bronze.  He also, with a couple of exceptions, essentially only loses to the best.  Gilman since blitzing to the finals last year has had a number of puzzling losses.  I don't dislike Gilman, I just get the feeling that he's headed for a Herbert-esque career trajectory.  He's too predictable. And Ramos hasn't won a tournament outside of american soil since the illustrious Paris Grand Prix in 2015.  

 

Why would you consider Fix/Lee on a different level than Steveson and Zahid? That doesn't make any sense.  Steveson dominated junior world's at 17 and hasn't lost an age group match in, I don't know, ever?

 

Daton didn't win Juniors until he was 19 and a half, and didn't come close to placing at U23's, a tournament that Richie Lewis won... 

 

Zahid wrestled up a weight at 84kg and took 2nd at Juniors losing only to Naifonov (Euro senior gold just a few weeks ago), and Zahid just dominated someone at a higher level than any victory Fix has ever had. 

 

Lee -- jury is still out.  We've never even seen him wrestle above 50kg. I think he's the best of the bunch that we have at the lighter weights, but it's impossible to say if he doesn't even compete.  

Steveson is beyond question ahead of 18 year old Fix.  Current Fix is beyond question ahead of current Steveson.  Neither of those things should even be debatable.  

 

I guess you could call Zahid's win over AD better than anything Fix has ever done so there is an argument to put Zahid equal to or ahead of Fix.  I went too far on that one.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You have to put Zahid on top of Fix after he mauled Ringer, ranked #4 or whatever high number it is, in the world. Any argument to the contrary is subjective at best. Blowing an absolute senior level hammer like Ringer out of the water is a much bigger feat than beating unranked and unproven Ramos 2 out of 3 times within a couple of weeks. I say this with no intent to denigrate Ramos at all. I am actually a fan of his and this he is very good, just not on Ringer's level.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steveson is beyond question ahead of 18 year old Fix.  Current Fix is beyond question ahead of current Steveson.  Neither of those things should even be debatable.  

 

I guess you could call Zahid's win over AD better than anything Fix has ever done so there is an argument to put Zahid equal to or ahead of Fix.  I went too far on that one.  

 

All fair.  I suppose when I think about Steveson I am grading him on a curve because he's a couple years younger than Fix, and at a weight that is harder to perform in against senior level wrestlers at such a young age, generally speaking.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I guess it's a good problem to have, who is better ... Zahid, Fix, Stevenson, Lee ?  Let's see who makes the world team Zahid of Fix. It they both make it, does Fix get the nod because he beat a returning Silver Medalist ? Is Gilman better than Dake ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If they both make the team then Zahid is clearly ahead of Fix.  Of course my hope is all of these guys just keep leap frogging each other accomplishment for accomplishment.  

 

I truly think Snyder has ushered in a golden age of USA wrestling with his combination of youth and achievement.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I truly think Snyder has ushered in a golden age of USA wrestling with his combination of youth and achievement.  

 

I agree.The fact that so many of these young bucks are friends and all of a sudden, after one summer, their buddy who used to drill and hang out with them over the summer became the world's best P4P wrestler has to be insanely motivating. It's one thing to have an idol you've been glorifying since you're a kid, and quite another when that idol is your peer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree.The fact that so many of these young bucks are friends and all of a sudden, after one summer, their buddy who used to drill and hang out with them over the summer became the world's best P4P wrestler has to be insanely motivating. It's one thing to have an idol you've been glorifying since you're a kid, and quite another when that idol is your peer.

Plus the element of seeing it done.  It's so much easier to do something (win world medals/titles at a young age) then it is to do something never done before.  It just seems so possible that it can be done now.  This summer every young star who didn't try to make the world team was noteworthy.  5-10 years ago if an 18-23 year old didn't try to make the world team then nobody would have thought twice about it.  

 

So you have a ton of guys with high level youth FS experience who think they are all months/years away from being world champs.  Even though most of them won't turn into Snyder (or anything close), they are all trying to and some will get there years earlier then they would have without a blazed trail.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...