Final X

[smcfee 76]

Would the NCAA ever pick up on the Final X idea and break up the tournament to stage it in multiple locations? If Final X concept succeeds and the NCAA repeatedly sells out its single location I could see them trying .... especially when female teams take hold.

 

The Lehigh Valley area has access to huge population areas compared to State College. Too bad they don't have some Jersey or Eastern PA heroes to drive sales.

 

 

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please don't give them any bad ideas....

[Coach_J 2,181]

I agree but lets not forget that we have no idea what sites they tried to get and who was willing to do it.  Maybe Columbus couldn't get university approval, had another event the day available, etc.  Picking places with vibrant RTC's makes the most sense, but it's a two-way-street...

Finding a facility at Ohio State or in the city of Columbus, I believe, would not be an issue, particularly at that time of year.  And Ryan seems to be a go-getter when it comes to attracting events to promote his program.

[swoopdown 628]

please don't give them any bad ideas....

Well, the good news for you is that Final X multiple sites is not a rip-roaring success. The Lehigh Valley site recently lowered its general admission ticket to $20.

 

 

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[sgallan 592]

Well, the good news for you is that Final X multiple sites is not a rip-roaring success. The Lehigh Valley site recently lowered its general admission ticket to $20.

 

 

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I get the feeling some marketing consultant sold them that this was a good idea. Heck, even hard core wrestling fans have a hard time following this. On the food side, dumb experiments are best done in non Olympic years. One tournament to get to best of three. One best of three tournament. Hold them in wrestling hot spots. Yeah it sucks for me out west but knowlegable fans and filled seats is better.

[cjc007 774]

I get the feeling some marketing consultant sold them that this was a good idea. Heck, even hard core wrestling fans have a hard time following this. On the food side, dumb experiments are best done in non Olympic years. One tournament to get to best of three. One best of three tournament. Hold them in wrestling hot spots. Yeah it sucks for me out west but knowlegable fans and filled seats is better.

It's a poor concept promoted by Flo.

 

I honestly don't know what USA Wrestling's leadership is thinking.

 

Poor event planning to bizarre qualifying procedures, a reason why it's too hard to follow the sport domestically. Add in multiple sites on different dates favoring certain wrestlers (mostly earned) behind an internet paywall.

 

Unreal.

 

 

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Edited May 27, 2018 by cjc007

[spladle 179]

After it fails miserably, I hope someone comes up with a better plan but leaves Flo out of the process.

[MadMardigain 1,607]

As mentioned before put it in one location and I think it works fine for both the fans and the athletes. Spreading it out definitely hurt many fans motivation consider it worth traveling to see. Flo can get their streaming money so they are likely fine with it, but USA wrestling can’t think this is helping them enough to continue it.

[cjc007 774]

As mentioned before put it in one location and I think it works fine for both the fans and the athletes. Spreading it out definitely hurt many fans motivation consider it worth traveling to see. Flo can get their streaming money so they are likely fine with it, but USA wrestling can’t think this is helping them enough to continue it.

Honestly, I could watch it on a single day, but there's no way I'm giving up 3 Saturdays in June to follow it live.

 

 

 

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[Lurker 2,039]

I’m willing to bet the total attendance over the three locations combined will end up being more than in one location. I may be wrong, we’ll have to wait and see, but that’s my guess at this point. And if so, that’s a good thing. Maybe not for someone like me who is choosing which one of the three to go to because that’s all I can, but if more people are able to see some live because it’s in the different locations, it’s worth it. I have no problem watching to other two dates from my couch.

 

And the three seperate dates is the only possible negative here. The “playoff” type format is nice. The even playing field the finalists will be on is what everyone has been talking about in the past. So if the different sites don’t work out, easy tweak. Keep everything the same just put them on one date. But it’s certainly worth a shot, certainly a step in the right direction.

[MadMardigain 1,607]

I’m willing to bet the total attendance over the three locations combined will end up being more than in one location.

But it obviously will cost more to put the event on in three locations instead of one. So sure attendance evens out but they are taking a hit in other areas. Can’t see them sticking with a 3 location model much longer if the attendance isn’t making up for the cost incurred. Edited May 27, 2018 by MadMardigain

[Lurker 2,039]

Agreed

[Housebuye 2,438]

But it obviously will cost more to put the event on in three locations instead of one. So sure attendance evens out but they are taking a hit in other areas. Can’t see them sticking with a 3 location model much longer if the attendance isn’t making up for the cost incurred.

It depends what the goal is. Exposure wise, this approach might make sense. To make money in the short run? This is not the best format

[JasonBryant 2,098]

I’ve had a wait and see philosophy on the whole thing ... and I’ll be at all three, so I’m going to simply - wait and see before passing a judgement on the process.

 

 

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[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

Previous WWTs have generally been poorly attended and placed in "neutral" sites that unfortunately generate little to no local interest. 

 

The hope is attract more fans via location. Its not a coincidence that certain weight classes are being determined at certain locations. 

65k/79k/86k being at State College hopes to draw in the PSU/David Taylor fans as well as fans of the PSU/tOSU rivalry as well as the Dake/Taylor rivalry. 70k/74k being in Lincoln NE hopes to draw in the Nebraska/James Green/Jordan Burroughs fans.

 

etc...

[DuckFor2 216]

Not too long ago the cheap seats at Lehigh were like $46 plus fees. To me that is a bit much, I will check to see if the price dropped. If so I will reconsider. It's also difficult to get excited for wrestling in June and yes a lot of the wrestling world is thoroughly confused with the format.

 

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[spladle 179]

Any objective observation will show the process is flawed at best. Wrestling just is not going to garner a large turnout in general during the summer. There are far too many other options for the entertainment dollar.

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Would the NCAA ever pick up on the Final X idea and break up the tournament to stage it in multiple locations? If Final X concept succeeds and the NCAA repeatedly sells out its single location I could see them trying .... especially when female teams take hold.

 

The Lehigh Valley area has access to huge population areas compared to State College. Too bad they don't have some Jersey or Eastern PA heroes to drive sales.

 

 

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If NCAA attendance falls to 2,500 or so for the finals, I could see them trying this outside the box type idea.  So long as they are jam packed, sold out, breaking records and pulling over 100,000 fans for the event, I can't see the sanity in tossing that out for this type of  approach.     You never know though.    

Wrestlemania 2 in 1985  was held in 3 locations, closed circuit tv and PPV with 4 bouts per location and closed circuit for the other locations.  It was a huge success.   So there is precedent for this type of thing in wrestling.   I can't see it doing well in the amateurs ranks though.  The pros are just much better at the promotional aspect.    Highlights here:   

 

I'd be all for giving the girls their own site and empowering them to come out from the men's shadow.  They've earned it.   Let them have their own stage and leave the men on their own as well.     

[swoopdown 628]

The snake was a nice touch. If Bo would have left one on Myles Martin it probably would have increased general population interest in their rematches this year.

 

 

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[Show_Me 340]

I’ve had a wait and see philosophy on the whole thing ... and I’ll be at all three, so I’m going to simply - wait and see before passing a judgement on the process.

 

 

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I am in the same "wait & see" position.

 

However, after reading all the pros/cons, I am starting to form an opinion that a "2 site scenario" may be the best compromise.

 

Make one site Central/Midwest (Iowa City, Lincoln, Stillwater, Minneapolis, etc.) with a 2nd site being East/Atlantic (State College, Columbus, Raleigh, Blacksburg, etc).

 

2 consecutive weekends.

Edited May 30, 2018 by Show_Me

[Billyhoyle 2,480]

Looks like they have lowered ticket prices for "Final X" Lehigh.  Hope that helps with attendance.  

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

If NCAA attendance falls to 2,500 or so for the finals, I could see them trying this outside the box type idea. So long as they are jam packed, sold out, breaking records and pulling over 100,000 fans for the event, I can't see the sanity in tossing that out for this type of approach. You never know though.

 

Wrestlemania 2 in 1985 was held in 3 locations, closed circuit tv and PPV with 4 bouts per location and closed circuit for the other locations. It was a huge success. So there is precedent for this type of thing in wrestling. I can't see it doing well in the amateurs ranks though. The pros are just much better at the promotional aspect. Highlights here: https://youtu.be/ctsWk3Tl7EA

 

I'd be all for giving the girls their own site and empowering them to come out from the men's shadow. They've earned it. Let them have their own stage and leave the men on their own as well.

 

Wrestlemania 2 was not considered a huge success. In facts it was considered a huge flop that did not return anywhere near the effort that was put into it as well as the worst Wrestlemania ever. As for having the women competing separately, I also disagree. In theory it would be nice for them to have an event to call their own, but honestly we can't even get any events to sell out outside of the NCAA Finals or big duals like PSU vs TOSU. What makes you think a women's only event would be able to sustain itself when we see some of the women's early rounds of tournaments wrestled by stars like Helen Maroulis in the back stage area for literally only 5 people to watch? Edited May 30, 2018 by BigTenFanboy

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Wrestlemania 2 was not considered a huge success. In facts it was considered a huge flop that did not return anywhere near the effort that was put into it as well as the worst Wrestlemania ever. As for having the women competing separately, I also disagree. In theory it would be nice for them to have an event to call their own, but honestly we can't even get any events to sell out outside of the NCAA Finals or big duals like PSU vs TOSU. What makes you think a women's only event would be able to sustain itself when we see some of the women's early rounds of tournaments wrestled by stars like Helen Maroulis in the back stage area for literally only 5 people to watch?

 

Well we thought it was a smashing success on the farm.  If you felt otherwise, I wont say you're wrong.   We absolutely loved it.     

 

As for the girls, I have no  doubt they will not be sustainable.  But if we're going to put on a non sustainable men's event where we split up the bouts into different locations and charge ridiculously high prices for it, why not put on a non sustainable event for the women too?   Good enough for the men but not good enough for the women?    Rubbish.   

[BigTenFanboy 1,790]

Well we thought it was a smashing success on the farm. If you felt otherwise, I wont say you're wrong. We absolutely loved it.

 

As for the girls, I have no doubt they will not be sustainable. But if we're going to put on a non sustainable men's event where we split up the bouts into different locations and charge ridiculously high prices for it, why not put on a non sustainable event for the women too? Good enough for the men but not good enough for the women? Rubbish.

 

Holding Wrestlemania 2 in several cities was interesting in concept and for the at home ppv viewer the fact it was in different locations made very little difference to the show. However for those in attendance it was very weak and the production costs were exponentially greater. The fans spent 2/3 of the show watching the event on large jumbotrons and only 1/3 in person. This took away from the novelty of being their live and in person. A quick Google search will show that Wrestlemania 2 according to many articles is generally considered the worst Wrestlemania ever and a failed experiment for the reasons listed above. However if you enjoyed it who am I to say you're wrong.

 

As for the women, I'm certainly not saying an unsustainable event for men is ok, but not ok for women. Quite the contrary actually. I'm saying it's not good enough for either individually. The hope and intent is that Final X will be sustainable. Honestly I'm not holding my breath, but we'll see the results. The problem with what you suggest in separating it out for women and men is that it creates 2 different non-sustainable events vs 1. I would think it's better to have 1 non-sustainable event than having 2.

Edited May 30, 2018 by BigTenFanboy

[sgallan 592]

When wrestlemania gets brought into a amateur wrestling conversation things are officially weird.

[Cletus_Tucker 890]

Holding Wrestlemania 2 in several cities was interesting in concept and for the at home ppv viewer the fact it was in different locations made very little difference to the show. However for those in attendance it was very weak and the production costs were exponentially greater. The fans spent 2/3 of the show watching the event on large jumbotrons and only 1/3 in person. This took away from the novelty of being their live and in person. A quick Google search will show that Wrestlemania 2 according to many articles is generally considered the worst Wrestlemania ever and a failed experiment for the reasons listed above. However if you enjoyed it who am I to say you're wrong.

 

As for the women, I'm certainly not saying an unsustainable event for men is ok, but not ok for women. Quite the contrary actually. I'm saying it's not good enough for either individually. The hope and intent is that Final X will be sustainable. Honestly I'm not holding my breath, but we'll see the results. The problem with what you suggest in separating it out for women and men is that it creates 2 different non-sustainable events vs 1. I would think it's better to have 1 non-sustainable event than having 2.

 

 

We're currently looking at 3 non sustainable events (3 locations).    I propose we do 2 non sustainable events, 1 for women, one for men.      That's if we're going to do non sustainable events.   May as well give women their own showcase.   

 

Does Helen really wrestle in front of just a handful of people?   I figured there must be someone turning out to watch those bouts.  It's not my cup of tea, but no one's watching when they don't mix them in with the men's finals?   

 

As for wrestlemania and multiple locations of the 2nd installment, I've attended home viewing events on a jumbo tron at the arena while the home team plays on the road.  I watch 2 NBA finals (different years, different home teams) in that fashion and it was a sold out party, huge energy type experience.   Like being at a giant bar and taking in the event with die hard fans.    I'm surprised the fans did not enjoy the event due to the away aspect of some of the bouts.    Hogan vs King Kong in the cage had to be about as electric as it gets (in the live location).  Particularly during the HUGE body slam and when climbing out of the cage.   

Edited May 31, 2018 by Cletus_Tucker