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WillieBoy

Snyder vs Cael

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Those are great points, but would you accept that Snyder is at a disadvantage when it comes to the strength of his field....because he doesn't let anyone else win worlds!

 

You're also listing guys that Cael never beat as if they were feathers in his cap, they're not. They switched weights, or didn't make the team. 

 

Thanks for the video of Sanderson and Saitiev, I'd seen the match but from a much worse angle.

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I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.

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I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.

Aren’t you the same guy who used to claim ad nauseam that 96 kg was by far the toughest weight in the world right up until Snyder started owning the weight? I’m pretty sure you are.

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I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.

Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.

 

Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.

 

Let that sink in.

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Edited by cjc007

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Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.

Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.

Let that sink in.

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That is truth! Kyle was the better. But

Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.

Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.

Let that sink in.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Kyle is the Goat. And yes of course it is just mostly my opinion

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Aren’t you the same guy who used to claim ad nauseam that 96 kg was by far the toughest weight in the world right up until Snyder started owning the weight? I’m pretty sure you are.[/quote

Yes good memory. 2000-2004 I think 187 was the toughest weight. Anytime you make a 7 time world champ bump up that is freaking strong. 2008-2016 I think 213 was. Now I think it is 143 but not sure abou that one just yet.
Edited by PRyan2012

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Here is another shot I am gonna take at your argument, it's based on the position, "If his head was in it", why do we only make these astonishing claims for super talents? Why can't I start a thread that says, "If mike zadick had Cael's talent he would beat him every time" and not get laughed off the forum?

 

I don't believe in either scenario but the bias towards making excuses for people with physical talent is pretty obnoxious. 

 

PS whatever loser is going to try and twist this into me saying Cael never worked hard can drop dead in advance.

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1) His career has no trajectory, it's over(unless your meant his coaching career which is a complete red herring in this thread).

2) A failed comeback is a really poor sign of contentment.

 

I'm not bashing him for it, in fact i'm praising him because I am sure he isn't satisfied, but your post is wrong on a number of levels.  

Edited by hammerlockthree

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Of course he has a career trajectory, he is coaching now. So how how does that make my post wrong? Maybe I should not have used the word content. Judging from any of his interviews, he seems pretty happy to moved on to the next phase of his wrestling career.

Edited by spladle

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Of course he has a career trajectory, he is coaching now. So how how does that make my post wrong? Maybe I should not have used the word content. Judging from any of his interviews, he seems pretty happy to moved on to the next phase of his wrestling career.

 

above post in response to this. 

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I don't see the connection buddy...or are you saying abas was the most "beautiful" wrestler ever.

 

Abas was slicker, but as a real wrestling snob I say Cael's combination of slickness, hand fighting, mat wrestling (in folk) make him way more awesome than Abas. Its sorta like comparing a piano piece to a symphony...in my mind. 

Oh yeah no doubt. In folkstyle Cael had the most diverse arsenal and there was no situation where he wouldn't come out on top.  The time where Cael impressed me the most freestyle wise was in his comeback against Herbert,.....after a seven year layoff he showed a much more diverse freestyle skill set than he ever had before.  If Cael had gone to World's in 2001 or 2002 he likely wins and I really think his whole attitude toward freestyle would have been different- and of course today's rules would have helped immensely (takedown worth two points instead of one would have literally reversed the outcome of several of his losses). 

 

Abas by contrast, was as pure of a takedown artist as there ever was. His three match series against Sam Henson was a complete beat down in 2004, and Henson was awesome in his own right.  Scores it is appear much closer than the actual matches since a takedown was worth one point. I think he took him down ten times and may not have yielded a single takedown. 

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Oh yeah no doubt. In folkstyle Cael had the most diverse arsenal and there was no situation where he wouldn't come out on top. The time where Cael impressed me the most freestyle wise was in his comeback against Herbert,.....after a seven year layoff he showed a much more diverse freestyle skill set than he ever had before. If Cael had gone to World's in 2001 or 2002 he likely wins and I really think his whole attitude toward freestyle would have been different- and of course today's rules would have helped immensely (takedown worth two points instead of one would have literally reversed the outcome of several of his losses).

 

Abas by contrast, was as pure of a takedown artist as there ever was. His three match series against Sam Henson was a complete beat down in 2004, and Henson was awesome in his own right. Scores it is appear much closer than the actual matches since a takedown was worth one point. I think he took him down ten times and may not have yielded a single takedown.

 

Great summary, cradle.

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Should of/could of I know is a bad argument. But with his beat down of Herbert and the rest of the field at trials after a7 year layoff was amazing. I think there is no doubt he could have made the team at 189 for 13 years from 2001-2012 hell and maybe even through 2016. 10 or more different color medals and a Big Bruce type career would be my bet. Not sure on getting 6 Golds.

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FWIW, I think Caels attitude of making the sport fun for his wrestlers goes back to when it wasn't fun for him. Wrestling being fun, instead of some sort of boot camp rite of passage seems to be a good approach. Even the Brands brothers seem to have backed off the lose and go home thing, and develop and keep things in perspective. Gable did too but people only think of him as a grind style. Exhibit A the Williams brothers did not grind.

 

For lots of wrestlers the fact that you legally are allowed to mash a guy's face into the mat is pretty fun in it's own right. So what if your coach has all the charm of a Nazi with a highly contagious skin condition, as long as you get to hammer other dudes into jelly.

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Yep, I started this one. Mainly for interest during down time.

 

Cael retired early and a lot of us were disappointed.

 

Looking at reality it was not that much of a surprise.

 

In Elementary School he wrote out his goal in life - Win an Olympic Gold Medal. He did so. Then... he retired and went into coaching.

 

John Smith and others kept on competing. Dan Gable got to the top twice and went into coaching. Everyone is different. I have no doubt Dan Gable would have won at least a few more World titles though I don't think he would have held up as long as John Smith did. Gable was too much the grinder and punished his body even as he punished his opponents.

 

Cael met his goal and moved on. The comeback was at a weight he took - in my view for one reason only. His protege was at his preferred weight and he did not want to knock him off the team. I think he could have done so. Instead he goes up a weight and places Fifth. This was mainly due to a challenge he had with his team at Penn State. Sure pointed to what he might have done had he kept competing internationally - in a style he apparently did not really enjoy.

 

I'm sure refereeing had something to do with it. Watching what the Ref's allowed against him in the US was brutal. Everything but hitting him with coach's chairs. Internationally wasn't really any better as it felt like "get the American" was their motto.

 

So I sit back and enjoy watching him make a Gable/OSU style run at National Titles. Watch him get the kids performing on the mat like Champions. I think it is good for the sport on all fronts. Sure does give a measuring stick for every other program to compare success - just like OSU and Dan Gable did. Would it be better if we had 3-5 honest challengers for the title every year? Probably. But to do so a few coaches will have to seriously raise the level of their programs and quit being satisfied wrestling for third place.

 

Kyle Snyder is amazing on the mat. A good ambassador for the Sport and USA Wrestling. He and Jordan Burroughs are good for wrestling on all fronts. Hope they make the goals they have set whether they can beat Cael in fantasy matches or not.

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Should of/could of I know is a bad argument. But with his beat down of Herbert and the rest of the field at trials after a7 year layoff was amazing. I think there is no doubt he could have made the team at 189 for 13 years from 2001-2012 hell and maybe even through 2016. 10 or more different color medals and a Big Bruce type career would be my bet. Not sure on getting 6 Golds.

 

Beat down?  I remember the matches being really close.  At least one of them.  

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Yep, I started this one. Mainly for interest during down time.

 

Cael retired early and a lot of us were disappointed.

 

Looking at reality it was not that much of a surprise.

 

In Elementary School he wrote out his goal in life - Win an Olympic Gold Medal. He did so. Then... he retired and went into coaching.

 

John Smith and others kept on competing. Dan Gable got to the top twice and went into coaching. Everyone is different. I have no doubt Dan Gable would have won at least a few more World titles though I don't think he would have held up as long as John Smith did. Gable was too much the grinder and punished his body even as he punished his opponents.

 

Cael met his goal and moved on. The comeback was at a weight he took - in my view for one reason only. His protege was at his preferred weight and he did not want to knock him off the team. I think he could have done so. Instead he goes up a weight and places Fifth. This was mainly due to a challenge he had with his team at Penn State. Sure pointed to what he might have done had he kept competing internationally - in a style he apparently did not really enjoy.

 

I'm sure refereeing had something to do with it. Watching what the Ref's allowed against him in the US was brutal. Everything but hitting him with coach's chairs. Internationally wasn't really any better as it felt like "get the American" was their motto.

 

So I sit back and enjoy watching him make a Gable/OSU style run at National Titles. Watch him get the kids performing on the mat like Champions. I think it is good for the sport on all fronts. Sure does give a measuring stick for every other program to compare success - just like OSU and Dan Gable did. Would it be better if we had 3-5 honest challengers for the title every year? Probably. But to do so a few coaches will have to seriously raise the level of their programs and quit being satisfied wrestling for third place.

 

Kyle Snyder is amazing on the mat. A good ambassador for the Sport and USA Wrestling. He and Jordan Burroughs are good for wrestling on all fronts. Hope they make the goals they have set whether they can beat Cael in fantasy matches or not.

 

Cael did not go up a weight in 2011. He took 5th at 84KG and Varner Bronze at 96KG

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And let's not forget there is a common opponent between Cael and Snyder...Albert Saritov from Russia.  Cael didn't score a point on him and Snyder beat him 7-0.

 

While that may be true, Cael would have wrestled him years ago while Saritov was younger.  Kyle wrestled a much older gentleman.  The argument is weak as they are not even the same size.  Cael vs Kyle?  Not even a relevant comparison.  Like the Fix vs Burroughs workout video I watched yesterday.  Fix looks like a gamer but against Burroughs, not very effective.  Burroughs is just too big, too strong. 

 

mspart

Edited by mspart

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