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Snyder vs Cael


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#21 sgallan

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 12:20 PM

FWIW, I think Caels attitude of making the sport fun for his wrestlers goes back to when it wasn't fun for him. Wrestling being fun, instead of some sort of boot camp rite of passage seems to be a good approach. Even the Brands brothers seem to have backed off the lose and go home thing, and develop and keep things in perspective. Gable did too but people only think of him as a grind style. Exhibit A the Williams brothers did not grind.
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#22 hammerlockthree

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 12:34 PM

Nah, I went to all those national and trial events when Ca el was competing FS. There was Ca el beating Simpson 9-0 on May 17 in Vegas. Ankle pick, do nothing, repeat 9 times. One try at a lace on the first TD and the end of that. He was obligated but not all that onto it. He hated the style. He was winning domestically because he was that much better. But mostly going through the motions. He made peace long enough to get a gold medal. Tried a comeback, showed well, but again, just did not like the style. It is a testament to his talent he got the gold but for him to actually put years toget her suggests a personality change which is of course absurd. With his wrestlers it is like with him, some years they are all in, others not so much.

 

you said "na" and then agreed with me. 



#23 de4856

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:25 PM

Well this actually may be difficult because I think we have yet to see the best version of Kyle yet. I believe that he is better now than he was in 2015, and I think he will continue to get better.

One thing is clear though, is that both Cael and Kyle have beaten some of the World's best in achieving their success.

As far as Cael is concerned, I believe that initially he was not enjoying the same level success on the Senior level that he did on the collegiate level. I think that Cael knew that in in order to reach the top of the Senior level, he had to push himself far beyond anything he had ever done before. I believe that he spent endless hours of toiling and training in preparation of the 2004 Olympics, and when he finally reached the top of that mountain and received his gold medal, he was probably spent.
Now maybe someone can ask him, or maybe he has already asked about this, but I think it would be interesting to hear his insights of this portion of his career.

#24 hammerlockthree

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:36 PM

Snyder's wins over Gadisov and sadulaev eclipse any wins of Caels.



#25 spladle

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:45 PM

Snyder's success doesn't negate Sanderson's accomplishments.

#26 cjc007

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 01:56 PM

Gable beat Keaser something like 22-0 and 23-0 I am thinking his technique was pretty darn good. To think other wise is plain ignorant!

His technique was great, but his best attribute was conditioning and completely grinding his opponents into oblivion.

Look at how he crushed Keaser and Keaser wins 73 World's and gets a silver in Montreal. That's then point, Gable's brutalized world class wrestlers with his unparralled conditioning.

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#27 hammerlockthree

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 03:36 PM

Snyder's success doesn't negate Sanderson's accomplishments.

no ones said it did. obviously you think all careers are equal.



#28 spladle

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Posted 28 May 2018 - 05:29 PM

Your mind reading skills suck.

#29 Perry

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:15 AM

Carl doesn't wrestle freestyle.

This thread belongs in the age group/college forum. lol

Along with: "who would win a bout between Werewolf vs Dracula?"

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#30 spladle08

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:42 AM

Nobody should be on the "I think Cael would win" bandwagon, 
He was great for the sport, and accomplished what nobody else has. 
But we are talking about the multiple time World Champion and Olympic Champion boy wonder at a heavier weight. 
And then we say, well Cael was great in college, and he did win that 1 world level Gold at the Olympics... he could probably bump up and take out this legend.....  come on guys 
Cael = great 
Snyder = Great 
But every 3 months this conversation is silly..... I hate the slow season 


 



#31 hammerlockthree

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:11 AM

Your mind reading skills suck.

 

your reading skills suck



#32 PRyan2012

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:14 AM

Snyder's wins over Gadisov and sadulaev eclipse any wins of Caels.

Umm. Cael beat defending Olympic champs Magemedov and  Adam Satiev. Throw in world champ Romero also. And he gave Gatsalov a much better match than Snyder's two bouts-was beating him soundly before losing 8-7 OT in Gatsalov's prime. Snyder will be much better we all know that but this is a one time match at their best. I wish Cael's would have loved freestyle like Kyle but that would have translated to no coaching titles so who knows. I think they are pretty equal. Varner wrestled both guys a ton. He is the only who knows the answer:-)


Edited by PRyan2012, 29 May 2018 - 04:15 AM.


#33 Cletus_Tucker

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:29 AM

Gable beat Keaser something like 22-0 and 23-0 I am thinking his technique was pretty darn good. To think other wise is plain ignorant!

 

Very good indeed.  He just wasn't our highest skilled wrestler as stated above.     



#34 hammerlockthree

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 07:37 AM

Umm. Cael beat defending Olympic champs Magemedov and  Adam Satiev. Throw in world champ Romero also. And he gave Gatsalov a much better match than Snyder's two bouts-was beating him soundly before losing 8-7 OT in Gatsalov's prime. Snyder will be much better we all know that but this is a one time match at their best. I wish Cael's would have loved freestyle like Kyle but that would have translated to no coaching titles so who knows. I think they are pretty equal. Varner wrestled both guys a ton. He is the only who knows the answer:-)

 

That is a good point I forgot about Saitiev.

 

Not sure I'd throw in a win over a Cuban.......



#35 KTG119

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 10:15 AM

I'll limit my comparisons to same weights (or close):

folk: 197 Kyle got pinned in finals, Cael decimated the field. senior v freshman = Cael all day.

free: at 210+ lbs, Cael 5th in world, Kyle well we know. old v young works in reverse here, Kyle all day.


Edited by KTG119, 29 May 2018 - 01:16 PM.


#36 sgallan

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:14 PM

His technique was great, but his best attribute was conditioning and completely grinding his opponents into oblivion.

Look at how he crushed Keaser and Keaser wins 73 World's and gets a silver in Montreal. That's then point, Gable's brutalized world class wrestlers with his unparralled conditioning.

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And before we get carried away it was 3-0 in the match to win the gold and just a few years later a prime aged Gable lost to an 18 year old. in the debate of greatest coach ever in any sport. Not realistically in the debate of Greatest top ten wrestler ever in wrestling overall, and debatable in the US.

Edited by sgallan, 29 May 2018 - 01:17 PM.

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#37 sgallan

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:23 PM

Having trashed Gable a bit, his overall style was predictive of the future. Controlled ties. Positioning. Pressure but smart shots or stalemate. Almost everybody back then who dominated would give a point to score a few more. Not Gable. He lost to Owens because he wrestled "loose". Kemp too for that matter. But in the big events after Owens he never gave up position. If you tried to get position he would smother you.

#38 sgallan

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:26 PM

FWIW, Keaser was a horrible stylistic match up to compete with Gable. Keaser gave up legs, didn't battle for position, always tried to finesse everything. Gable just ran him over and would break him. You tube and video.....

Edited by sgallan, 29 May 2018 - 01:27 PM.

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#39 KTG119

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:50 PM

Having trashed Gable a bit, his overall style was predictive of the future. Controlled ties. Positioning. Pressure but smart shots or stalemate. Almost everybody back then who dominated would give a point to score a few more. Not Gable. He lost to Owens because he wrestled "loose". Kemp too for that matter. But in the big events after Owens he never gave up position. If you tried to get position he would smother you.

funny I thought Gable lost to Owings because he wrestled tight...Owings got in his head a bit....

 

and/or Owings double jointed getting out of arm bars thing.



#40 cjc007

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 01:52 PM

And before we get carried away it was 3-0 in the match to win the gold and just a few years later a prime aged Gable lost to an 18 year old. in the debate of greatest coach ever in any sport. Not realistically in the debate of Greatest top ten wrestler ever in wrestling overall, and debatable in the US.

I couldn't agree more.

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