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Snyder vs Cael


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#41 hammerlockthree

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:02 PM

And before we get carried away it was 3-0 in the match to win the gold and just a few years later a prime aged Gable lost to an 18 year old. in the debate of greatest coach ever in any sport. Not realistically in the debate of Greatest top ten wrestler ever in wrestling overall, and debatable in the US.

 

FIFY



#42 de4856

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:21 PM

So here's a question, Cael no doubt worked hard to win his Gold and then presumedly needed a break or was spent. I can only assume the same for Varner since Cael trained him and I assume made him train the same way, and then we see Varner take a break in 2013. So what makes guys like Dave Schultz, Bruce Baumgartner, John Smith, or a Jordan Burroughs compete successfully year after year.

#43 hammerlockthree

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:41 PM

they were all better than cael and varner.....

 

It's an incoherent question. Sorta like saying "pico i better than retherford" when pico quit wrestling. 


Edited by hammerlockthree, 29 May 2018 - 02:41 PM.


#44 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:44 PM

they were all better than cael and varner.....
 
It's an incoherent question. Sorta like saying "pico i better than retherford" when pico quit wrestling.


Lol I see what you did there! Clever!

#45 hammerlockthree

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 02:45 PM

lol 

 

i honestly didn't intend that effect....though i wish i had.



#46 Cradle1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:54 PM

Didn't Gable beat Keaser 22-0 at the Olympic Trials?

 

His World Championship is as good as Gable's.

He is an Olympic Silver medalist as well.



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#47 Cradle1

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Posted 29 May 2018 - 04:55 PM

Some truth in this, but Stephen Abas circa 2004 was something to behold.  The way that Batirov turned everything against him in the Olympic Final was unthinkable if you saw his season up to that point.

Right now its a tech. lets get real. 

 

P4P in their prime? No evidence Cael can get it done. I will say for him that I think Cael's international career was not really emblematic of how great he was, I think he'd had enough pressure  to win and wanted to get his gold and go home. 

 

The reason Cael is in the discussion at all is because he is from my perspective the most...beautiful wrestler ever, but Snyder's strength is position....which is not as glamorous but it ultimately trumps everything else. 



#48 hammerlockthree

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 09:42 AM

Some truth in this, but Stephen Abas circa 2004 was something to behold.  The way that Batirov turned everything against him in the Olympic Final was unthinkable if you saw his season up to that point.

 

I don't see the connection buddy...or are you saying abas was the most "beautiful" wrestler ever.

 

Abas was slicker, but as a real wrestling snob I say Cael's combination of slickness, hand fighting, mat wrestling (in folk) make him way more awesome than Abas. Its sorta like comparing a piano piece to a symphony...in my mind. 



#49 sgallan

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Posted 30 May 2018 - 11:24 AM

funny I thought Gable lost to Owings because he wrestled tight...Owings got in his head a bit....

and/or Owings double jointed getting out of arm bars thing.

Loose in his technique. Instead of positional pressure, heavy on the head, elbows in, and just work him like a machine, he left himself open to attacks, and lost tactical control of the match. Wrestling tight is not always technical term, it is often a term where you choke and don't do what you usually do. Tight in this context is also tiring mentally and physically as you over compensate physically, and panicmentally. Watch the video of that match. It is a case study and something Gable used as a coach that made him so great.

#50 PRyan2012

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 05:03 AM

https://www.youtube....h?v=BPvZpCcs8eA 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=hC8AE14U7WA 

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=zL-DObt1hQM

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=Gw_Zxlljmyg 

 

Sanderson had to get through or around these four guys. I think that is as good or better than Snyder's competition.  This bunch was as good as it gets! Cael beat two of them and had razor close 1 point matches with the other two. 13 world titles in this group!!! Also don't forget Cael beat World and Olympic champ Revaz Mindo and Magemedov!


Edited by PRyan2012, 31 May 2018 - 06:32 AM.


#51 hammerlockthree

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 07:21 AM

Those are great points, but would you accept that Snyder is at a disadvantage when it comes to the strength of his field....because he doesn't let anyone else win worlds!

 

You're also listing guys that Cael never beat as if they were feathers in his cap, they're not. They switched weights, or didn't make the team. 

 

Thanks for the video of Sanderson and Saitiev, I'd seen the match but from a much worse angle.


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#52 PRyan2012

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 08:03 AM

I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.



#53 AnklePicker

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:37 AM

I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.


Aren’t you the same guy who used to claim ad nauseam that 96 kg was by far the toughest weight in the world right up until Snyder started owning the weight? I’m pretty sure you are.
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#54 cjc007

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 09:50 AM

I am just saying if Cael's head was in it I would take him almost every time over Snyder in a one match deal. Kyle is the GOAT most likely-will never deny that! This weight at the time was the most stacked of any weight I can think of.

Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.

Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.

Let that sink in.
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Edited by cjc007, 31 May 2018 - 09:52 AM.

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#55 PRyan2012

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 10:51 AM

Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.
Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.
Let that sink in.
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That is truth! Kyle was the better. But

Your opinion is based on speculation, not facts.
Snyder has already passed Carl before he graduated from college.
Let that sink in.
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Kyle is the Goat. And yes of course it is just mostly my opinion
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#56 PRyan2012

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 10:56 AM

[quote name="AnklePicker" post="365881" timestamp="1527802626"]Aren’t you the same guy who used to claim ad nauseam that 96 kg was by far the toughest weight in the world right up until Snyder started owning the weight? I’m pretty sure you are.[/quote

Yes good memory. 2000-2004 I think 187 was the toughest weight. Anytime you make a 7 time world champ bump up that is freaking strong. 2008-2016 I think 213 was. Now I think it is 143 but not sure abou that one just yet.


Edited by PRyan2012, 01 June 2018 - 02:21 AM.


#57 hammerlockthree

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 01:17 PM

Here is another shot I am gonna take at your argument, it's based on the position, "If his head was in it", why do we only make these astonishing claims for super talents? Why can't I start a thread that says, "If mike zadick had Cael's talent he would beat him every time" and not get laughed off the forum?

 

I don't believe in either scenario but the bias towards making excuses for people with physical talent is pretty obnoxious. 

 

PS whatever loser is going to try and twist this into me saying Cael never worked hard can drop dead in advance.


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#58 spladle

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:08 PM

I am sure Sanderson is ok with his career trajectory. I would have liked to have seen more of him on the international front.

Edited by spladle, 31 May 2018 - 02:47 PM.


#59 hammerlockthree

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:23 PM

1) His career has no trajectory, it's over(unless your meant his coaching career which is a complete red herring in this thread).

2) A failed comeback is a really poor sign of contentment.

 

I'm not bashing him for it, in fact i'm praising him because I am sure he isn't satisfied, but your post is wrong on a number of levels.  


Edited by hammerlockthree, 31 May 2018 - 02:39 PM.


#60 spladle

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Posted 31 May 2018 - 02:42 PM

Of course he has a career trajectory, he is coaching now. So how how does that make my post wrong? Maybe I should not have used the word content. Judging from any of his interviews, he seems pretty happy to moved on to the next phase of his wrestling career.

Edited by spladle, 31 May 2018 - 02:46 PM.





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