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Jrob looked out for the good of ALL programs his whole career. Cael looks out for himself.

 

Lying to the cops and refusing to cooperate was not good for Minnehaha at all. Protecting drug dealers in his program? He should have been prosecuted for obstructing Justice. Just another case of entitlement for his athletes and only reinforces the belief on campus they are a protected class who get away with almost anything.

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A little cut and paste to bring some positivity into the back and forth.  Very impressive. 

 

EAST LANSING, Mich. - Michigan State University will induct six members into its Athletics Hall of Fame on Thursday, Sept. 17, as part of the "Celebrate 2015" weekend. The Class of 2015 includes: Pat Milkovich (wrestling)

 

 

"Pat Milkovich was an elite wrestler, winning two NCAA Championships, three Big Ten titles and posting better than a 90 percent winning percentage. A former walk-on, Pat became the first four-time NCAA finalist in Big Ten history.

 

 

Pat Milkovich

Wrestling (1972-76)

Maple Heights, Ohio

 

Pat Milkovich's exceptional work ethic and sheer determination to be a champion led him on a path to greatness at Michigan State during his time as a Spartan from 1972-76.

 

Milkovich was the first four-time NCAA finalist in Big Ten history and won national titles at 126 pounds in 1972 and 1974. One of just two four-time All-Americans at Michigan State, he finished his career with a remarkable .902 winning percentage (90-8-4 record), and his 18 wins at the NCAA Championships are tied for the most in school history. In addition, his 90 victories ranked second at MSU upon the completion of his career. Milkovich also is one of only seven Spartans to win three Big Ten titles (1972, 1974, 1976), and he finished runner-up in 1975.

 

"My wife and I were actually on the golf course, and I was on the 10th green getting ready to putt," Milkovich said on when he received the call from Hollis regarding his induction into the MSU Athletics Hall of Fame. "I looked at my wife, and I starting tearing up. For me, this is coming home. From the moment I set foot on campus, I fell in love.

 

"My whole goal was I wanted to be the best at what I did, and in order to do that, I had to do some things that other people weren't willing to do. I'm not a very gifted natural athlete. I wish I could say that I was, but I'm not. Everything I did, I really had to spend a lot of time doing it. Everything I did was centered around being the best. When I ran, I ran with all my heart and soul. I ran like I wanted to be a National Champion. I drilled like I wanted to be a National Champion. When I practiced, I practiced liked I wanted to be a National Champion. I realized early that you have limited chances at things, and once they're gone, you never get another chance. I had four chances at Michigan State to be a National Champion. It was difficult because I couldn't live like a normal Michigan State student. That journey was hard, but I would never take it back. I looked forward every day to getting up and going over to Jenison to run."

 

Milkovich's journey incredibly started as a walk-on at MSU, and less than a year later, he became the youngest NCAA Champion in history at 18 years and three months when he won his first national title as a freshman in 1972, defeating Illinois State's Chris Quigley in the final, 4-2. To this day, Milkovich still holds the distinction of being the youngest wrestler to ever win a National Championship.

 

"I wasn't a big name in high school by any stretch of the imagination," he said. "My older brothers were fantastic and went to college on a full-ride (scholarship). My brother Tom was the No. 1 recruit in the nation and ended up going to Michigan State. I figured if I won a state championship, I'm in, I'd get a scholarship. Nobody offered me anything. My style of wrestling wasn't very flashy or impressive.

 

"Grady (Peninger) had called me several times and that was one of the main reasons why I went to Michigan State, because Grady wouldn't give up on me. He said, `I don't have any money for you, but I tell you what, if you come up here as a non-scholarship walk-on and you prove yourself, I will do for you what I'd do for anybody that wrestles for me, and I'll consider you for a scholarship.' I wasn't exactly sure what that meant, but I said, he calls me on a regular basis, and he's really expressing sincere interest in having me come to Michigan State.

 

"I was 17 years old -- I didn't turn 18 until December -- and I walked into the wrestling room for the first time and saw the depth chart at my weight class 126, and I was the last guy on the list at No. 5. I had to beat four other guys, and two were upperclassmen and scholarship athletes. I had a choice: do I battle these guys and try and become the best that I can be, or do I curl up into a little ball and take my lumps and say I went out for the team? I have a hard time going for something with half a heart or being mediocre. I know there's two things in life that are easy to do: quit when things get difficult, and the other is to be happy being average. That's just not a part of my makeup."

 

Milkovich was one of three Spartans to win a National Championship in 1972, along with Greg Johnson and his brother, Tom, as Michigan State finished runner-up in the team standings. Milkovich also claimed his first Big Ten crown that same season to help lead the Spartans to their seventh-consecutive Big Ten Championship. The first freshman to win an NCAA title since 1947, he was named the Amateur Wrestling News and National Wrestling Coaches Association (NWCA) Freshman of the Year after compiling a 19-3 record.

 

"I remember when they were getting us lined up to take a picture of all the National Champions," Milkovich said. "Greg Johnson leaned over to me and said, `Pat, there's 10 weight classes here, 10 National Champions. Three of them are Michigan State Spartans -- you, me, and your brother, Tommy.' And he broke out into this huge grin. That was so cool. And to win it with my brother was really emotional. We were the first brothers to ever win an NCAA title in the same year and not be twins.

 

"And it's the first time I ever saw my dad cry. He left his high school team to watch the NCAA (finals); I didn't know he was there, and we're wrestling in front of 13,000 people out in Maryland at Cole Field House. Out of all those people, I was always trained to listen to one voice, and that was the coach in my corner. Everybody else I blank out. But I heard my dad from the crowd, and I just felt like I couldn't lose. I had great workout partners, Greg was already a National Champion (at 118 pounds), so I just had to be a National Champion. And when I won, I knew my brother wasn't going to lose (142-pound National Champion)."

 

Milkovich also vividly recalled when he finally did get that scholarship to MSU.

 

"After the season was over, my brother and I went to talk with Grady. Grady said come in, what do you want to talk about? My brother says, `Coach, my dad called me last night and said he's pulling Pat out of Michigan State because he can't get any scholarship money.' Soon there were papers flying everywhere and Grady said, `Hey, hold on here, he's not going anywhere, he's on full scholarship.' So I earned my full scholarship," Milkovich said, laughing.

 

After missing the 1972-73 season due to a knee injury, Milkovich returned to action as a sophomore in 1973-74. The top seed at the 1974 NCAA Championships, Milkovich cruised to his second National Championship at 126 pounds, winning his five matches by a combined score of 41-10. His title run culminated with a 5-2 victory over Oklahoma State's Billy Martin in the final. Named the Most Outstanding Sophomore by the NWCA, Milkovich collected an impressive 23-1 record and also earned the Walter C. Jacob Award, which is given to the Spartan with the highest point total.

 

Again the top seed at nationals in 1975, Milkovich advanced to the championship match before falling in a heartbreaker to Penn State's John Fritz in overtime (5-5, 3-1). He also placed second at the Big Ten Championships and finished the season with a 17-2-4 record.

 

For his senior season, Milkovich moved up a weight class to 134 pounds and went on to win his third Big Ten title. He earned the second seed in the 1976 NCAA Championships and was victorious in his first four matches, but fell in the final to No. 1 seed Mike Frick of Lehigh, 7-4. Milkovich finished his last year with a 31-2 overall record, including a 14-0 record in dual meets.

 

A two-time team captain, Milkovich earned the Most Outstanding Wrestler Award at Michigan State in 1974 and 1976, and was named MSU's recipient of the Big Ten Conference Medal of Honor in 1976. He was selected to participate in the East-West College All-Star Meet three times, and went 2-0 during the event (defeated Iowa State's Bill Fjetland in 1972; did not compete due to illness in 1975; beat Iowa's Tim Cysewski in 1976).

 

"I was in the right spot with the right people, the right coaches, and the right environment," Milkovich said. "To be on that campus was like hallowed grounds to me. With all of the great athletes that came before me, I have a great reverence for what all those folks did at Michigan State University, from all the different sports and coaches, that are just icons.

 

"I used to go to Jenison Field House at 6 in the morning to go run during the season, and I'd purposely go through the front door to look at all those pictures in the foyer. And I'd stare at them and study them. And l'd look at all of the pictures in the hallway, and then I would go run. That was my ritual. I wanted to be around greatness. Don Rogers, Greg Johnson, Lon Hicks, Conrad Calendar, my brother Tom, Randy Miller, Jim Bissell -- if any one of those people are not in my wrestling room, I don't have the career I had. They forced me to be better. They forced me every day to wrestle with all my heart and soul to survive. And that's the kind of environment you need to be in."

 

A native of Maple Heights, Ohio, Milkovich was just as successful at the prep level. He accumulated a 75-5-2 record, co-captained Maple Heights High School to the Ohio state championship, won a state title his senior year in 1971, and was an all-state and All-American selection. His father Mike was his high school wrestling coach and is in the National Wrestling Hall of Fame.

 

Milkovich continued his career in wrestling by coaching, first as a graduate assistant at Alabama (1976-78) and then for eight years as an assistant at Michigan State (1978-86). He then spent 13 years as the head coach at Rochester Adams High School from 1988-2001, where he led the Highlanders to a record of 206-43-3, including a state championship in 1998 and a runner-up finish in 1999. Milkovich was named the Michigan Division I Wrestling Coach of the Year in 1998.

 

A member of the National Wrestling Hall of Fame Class of 2000, Milkovich is the fifth wrestler to be inducted in the MSU Athletics Hall of Fame. He is also a member of the Ohio Wrestling and Greater Cleveland Sports Halls of Fame. 

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Lying to the cops and refusing to cooperate was not good for Minnehaha at all. Protecting drug dealers in his program? He should have been prosecuted for obstructing Justice. Just another case of entitlement for his athletes and only reinforces the belief on campus they are a protected class who get away with almost anything.

Many people characterize it as you do. Many don’t.

http://m.startribune.com/former-gophers-wrestling-coach-j-robinson-still-working-with-kids-after-messy-departure-from-university/434521513/

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Thanks TFBJR, but I'm not sure that was necessary...back to the original intent of my post.  I was responding to the suggestion that it was easier for Gable/Iowa to win "back then" vs. now with Cael.  Back then," there were still teams that were stacked with great wrestlers but there were more opportunities for other great athletes to compete somewhere else. I believe that 4x DII NCAA champion Joey Davis from Notre Dame College (174) would have made an impact in DI had we still allowed that division to compete in the DI championships.  My other analogy would be the Midlands tournament.  "Back then," the Midlands was considered to be the absolute toughest tournament in the US because there were so many post-collegiate champions/AA's, Olympians, World Champions, Sunkist Kids, Mayor Daley, etc., that would compete, in addition to many of the top schools entering 3-4 wrestlers at many wts, more good wrestlers spread around.   Not that way anymore.  There were more scholarships. Schools weren't limited to 9.9 and rosters weren't limited.  It was always rumored that everyone at Iowa State was on scholarship because Nichols was very wealthy.  I also think it's easier to AA now since there are fewer schools and 8 places. In '79 they increased it to 8. 

Anyway, as I said, Cael's abilities are nothing to sneeze at.  Great guy, great coach, great recruiter, great role model, but I would still submit that the era when Gable coached was harder to win the NCAA's because the quality and depth was spread around to other schools in addition to DII/DIII, just like the Midlands then v. now.

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Pat, this post seems like a subjective argument. My argument is just based on mathematics. If you spread the talent out more, then each team has less, unless your team is a statistical outlier like Iowa was due to Gable.

 

Not saying Gable wasn't a great coach because obviously he was. Besides that point, his accomplishments stand on their own merit and need no embellishment (the thread topic leads to this) by saying their dynasty is better than Cael's current PSU dynasty. Likewise, Cael and PSU is incredibly joyful to watch and also need no embellishment.

 

This board gets over fixated on arguing who is best all time in every category.

  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.

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I think it would be easier to win a 32 man bracketed tournament with all excellent 285lbs wrestlers than it would be to win an 8 man bracketed tournament with Kyle Snyder and Adam Coon in it. I judge how difficult it is to win a tournament based on who the top 2 wrestlers are. I judge how difficult it is to place in a tournament based on how strong the field is.

 

 

You realize that Kyle Snyder can only wrestle at one weight class per event, right?  And that he has 4 years of eligibility to compete?  And that there have been many other great wrestlers?

To try to fire up both your brain cells to make a point that winning an 8 man bracket is occasionally tougher than a 32 man bracket (what if the 32 man bracket had Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, David Taylor, etc?) is about par for the course with you.

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I think it would be easier to win a 32 man bracketed tournament with all excellent 285lbs wrestlers than it would be to win an 8 man bracketed tournament with Kyle Snyder and Adam Coon in it. I judge how difficult it is to win a tournament based on who the top 2 wrestlers are. I judge how difficult it is to place in a tournament based on how strong the field is.

 

Have to figure ANY bracket with the talented world champ would be tougher than any bracket without him.

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You realize that Kyle Snyder can only wrestle at one weight class per event, right?  And that he has 4 years of eligibility to compete?  And that there have been many other great wrestlers?

To try to fire up both your brain cells to make a point that winning an 8 man bracket is occasionally tougher than a 32 man bracket (what if the 32 man bracket had Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, David Taylor, etc?) is about par for the course with you.

 

The fact that you don't understand that the number of participants in a bracket doesn't determine how difficult that bracket is to win does not surprise me. The fact that you live your life defined by generalizations shows EXACTLY the type of quality human being you are.

 

As for the bracket with Burroughs, Dake, and Taylor? We've seen it already. It was one of the greatest brackets of all time. Not because of the number of competitors. but because of who was in that bracket. Thanks for proving my point.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.

 

Not everything is about PSU. The fact that you seem to think any of this has to do with PSU shows how big of an idiot you are.

Its about the modern landscape of colligate wrestling.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.

 

 

If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect. 

 

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept. 

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If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect. 

 

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept. 

 

Granted, Usain would crush any of us on the track. But I betcha I'd make him look like a pretzel on the mat. Easily.

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If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect.

 

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept.

No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.

Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.

Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.

You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

Edited by NJWC

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No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.

Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.

Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.

You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

 

 

No, it won't "always" be harder. Since I am not going to argue with you I'll cut to the chase, you are an idiot. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Thanks TFBJR, but I'm not sure that was necessary...back to the original intent of my post.  I was responding to the suggestion that it was easier for Gable/Iowa to win "back then" vs. now with Cael.  Back then," there were still teams that were stacked with great wrestlers but there were more opportunities for other great athletes to compete somewhere else. I believe that 4x DII NCAA champion Joey Davis from Notre Dame College (174) would have made an impact in DI had we still allowed that division to compete in the DI championships.  My other analogy would be the Midlands tournament.  "Back then," the Midlands was considered to be the absolute toughest tournament in the US because there were so many post-collegiate champions/AA's, Olympians, World Champions, Sunkist Kids, Mayor Daley, etc., that would compete, in addition to many of the top schools entering 3-4 wrestlers at many wts, more good wrestlers spread around.   Not that way anymore.  There were more scholarships. Schools weren't limited to 9.9 and rosters weren't limited.  It was always rumored that everyone at Iowa State was on scholarship because Nichols was very wealthy.  I also think it's easier to AA now since there are fewer schools and 8 places. In '79 they increased it to 8. 

Anyway, as I said, Cael's abilities are nothing to sneeze at.  Great guy, great coach, great recruiter, great role model, but I would still submit that the era when Gable coached was harder to win the NCAA's because the quality and depth was spread around to other schools in addition to DII/DIII, just like the Midlands then v. now.

 

Not necessary, but it helps to add some positivity to this place once in a while - especially when the cross-border wars are raging.

 

  Honestly I didn't know many of those details - very impressive from a young age.  Congrats.  

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Seriously minus the sycophants...which was tougher?

 

Gable in 1980-97 or Sanderson last 10 years?

 

Serious evidence on Gable's run on deeper talent.

 

Serious evidence on Sanderson's on top heavy programs.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

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No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.

Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.

Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.

You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

actually no.

with 150 teams, the points are spread out.

with 60, more teams have more point scorers.

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