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Comparing dynasties


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#81 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 03 June 2018 - 01:23 PM

 I also think it's easier to AA now since there are fewer schools and 8 places. In '79 they increased it to 8. 


I agree and this is exactly the point I was trying to make when I made the PIAA AAA vs National Prep anaology.

#82 NJWC

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:03 AM

Pat, this post seems like a subjective argument. My argument is just based on mathematics. If you spread the talent out more, then each team has less, unless your team is a statistical outlier like Iowa was due to Gable.

Not saying Gable wasn't a great coach because obviously he was. Besides that point, his accomplishments stand on their own merit and need no embellishment (the thread topic leads to this) by saying their dynasty is better than Cael's current PSU dynasty. Likewise, Cael and PSU is incredibly joyful to watch and also need no embellishment.

This board gets over fixated on arguing who is best all time in every category.

  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.



#83 NJWC

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:05 AM

I think it would be easier to win a 32 man bracketed tournament with all excellent 285lbs wrestlers than it would be to win an 8 man bracketed tournament with Kyle Snyder and Adam Coon in it. I judge how difficult it is to win a tournament based on who the top 2 wrestlers are. I judge how difficult it is to place in a tournament based on how strong the field is.

 

 

You realize that Kyle Snyder can only wrestle at one weight class per event, right?  And that he has 4 years of eligibility to compete?  And that there have been many other great wrestlers?

To try to fire up both your brain cells to make a point that winning an 8 man bracket is occasionally tougher than a 32 man bracket (what if the 32 man bracket had Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, David Taylor, etc?) is about par for the course with you.



#84 TobusRex

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 02:14 AM

I think it would be easier to win a 32 man bracketed tournament with all excellent 285lbs wrestlers than it would be to win an 8 man bracketed tournament with Kyle Snyder and Adam Coon in it. I judge how difficult it is to win a tournament based on who the top 2 wrestlers are. I judge how difficult it is to place in a tournament based on how strong the field is.

 

Have to figure ANY bracket with the talented world champ would be tougher than any bracket without him.


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#85 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:10 AM

You realize that Kyle Snyder can only wrestle at one weight class per event, right?  And that he has 4 years of eligibility to compete?  And that there have been many other great wrestlers?

To try to fire up both your brain cells to make a point that winning an 8 man bracket is occasionally tougher than a 32 man bracket (what if the 32 man bracket had Jordan Burroughs, Kyle Dake, David Taylor, etc?) is about par for the course with you.

 

The fact that you don't understand that the number of participants in a bracket doesn't determine how difficult that bracket is to win does not surprise me. The fact that you live your life defined by generalizations shows EXACTLY the type of quality human being you are.

 

As for the bracket with Burroughs, Dake, and Taylor? We've seen it already. It was one of the greatest brackets of all time. Not because of the number of competitors. but because of who was in that bracket. Thanks for proving my point.


Edited by BigTenFanboy, 04 June 2018 - 03:20 AM.


#86 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:10 AM

Have to figure ANY bracket with the talented world champ would be tougher than any bracket without him.

 

Not according to NJWC



#87 BigTenFanboy

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 03:12 AM

  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.

 

Not everything is about PSU. The fact that you seem to think any of this has to do with PSU shows how big of an idiot you are.

Its about the modern landscape of colligate wrestling.


Edited by BigTenFanboy, 04 June 2018 - 03:13 AM.


#88 TBar1977

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:05 AM

  You're using mathematics to support your position that it's easier to be 1 of 150 teams competing for one team title, vs 1 of 60? 

 

Good God, are these guys idiots.  Pat, he actually means this.  That's how absurd the PSU contingent has become.

 

 

If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect. 

 

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept. 


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#89 swoopdown

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 04:32 AM

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept.


So you've seen me race Bolt?


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#90 TobusRex

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 05:29 AM

If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect. 

 

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept. 

 

Granted, Usain would crush any of us on the track. But I betcha I'd make him look like a pretzel on the mat. Easily.


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#91 NJWC

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:06 AM

If you can't understand these pricipals then that says a lot about your limited intellect.

A race with Usain Bolt and 149 fat guys isn't much of a challenge, but one with Usain Bolt and the next 7 fastest guys is. Simple concept.

No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.
Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.
Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.
You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

Edited by NJWC, 04 June 2018 - 07:08 AM.


#92 TBar1977

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 07:55 AM

No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.
Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.
Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.
You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

 

 

No, it won't "always" be harder. Since I am not going to argue with you I'll cut to the chase, you are an idiot. 


Edited by TBar1977, 04 June 2018 - 07:57 AM.

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#93 TFBJR

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 08:12 AM

Thanks TFBJR, but I'm not sure that was necessary...back to the original intent of my post.  I was responding to the suggestion that it was easier for Gable/Iowa to win "back then" vs. now with Cael.  Back then," there were still teams that were stacked with great wrestlers but there were more opportunities for other great athletes to compete somewhere else. I believe that 4x DII NCAA champion Joey Davis from Notre Dame College (174) would have made an impact in DI had we still allowed that division to compete in the DI championships.  My other analogy would be the Midlands tournament.  "Back then," the Midlands was considered to be the absolute toughest tournament in the US because there were so many post-collegiate champions/AA's, Olympians, World Champions, Sunkist Kids, Mayor Daley, etc., that would compete, in addition to many of the top schools entering 3-4 wrestlers at many wts, more good wrestlers spread around.   Not that way anymore.  There were more scholarships. Schools weren't limited to 9.9 and rosters weren't limited.  It was always rumored that everyone at Iowa State was on scholarship because Nichols was very wealthy.  I also think it's easier to AA now since there are fewer schools and 8 places. In '79 they increased it to 8. 

Anyway, as I said, Cael's abilities are nothing to sneeze at.  Great guy, great coach, great recruiter, great role model, but I would still submit that the era when Gable coached was harder to win the NCAA's because the quality and depth was spread around to other schools in addition to DII/DIII, just like the Midlands then v. now.

 

Not necessary, but it helps to add some positivity to this place once in a while - especially when the cross-border wars are raging.

 

  Honestly I didn't know many of those details - very impressive from a young age.  Congrats.  



#94 paboom

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Posted 04 June 2018 - 10:50 AM

Seriously minus the sycophants...which was tougher?

Gable in 1980-97 or Sanderson last 10 years?

Serious evidence on Gable's run on deeper talent.

Serious evidence on Sanderson's on top heavy programs.

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#95 GockeS

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Posted 05 June 2018 - 09:24 AM

No genius, Cheryl picking one scenario to support your claim doesn’t make you any less wrong.
Statistically speaking 1/150 will always be tougher than 1/60.
Coming up with an outlier scenario doesn’t do anything but show that you don’t have the character to admit being wrong.
You stated that mathematically it’s harder. You’re 100% wrong. As usual.

actually no.

with 150 teams, the points are spread out.

with 60, more teams have more point scorers.






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