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steamboat_charlie

USA P4P Rankings (Pre-Final X)

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Has a Penn State wrestler under Cael won a world medal? You can diminish Gilman's silver medal all you want because of your Iowa hatred but you can never take it from him. He wrestled and beat everyone who lined up in front of him from the last chance qualifier all the way until the world finals. He was a huge part of Team USA winning a world title over the cheating Russian's. Badass accomplishment anyway you look at it

Cael coached Varner to an Olympic Gold Medal. And Taylor and Dake are better than Gilman no matter how much you protest otherwise.

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So essentially your version of P4P is who has the largest gap against the rest of their weight class? Wouldn't that in effect move down Synder for the NCAA P4P rankings since he was "pretty close" with Adam Coon and make Zain or Nolf definitively better since they were considered better than their respective weight classes? I'm not arguing against your definition because I certain view Snyder as the best P4P. I'm just trying to understand was P4P means, and the whole deal with Joseph being ranked P4P over Marinelli while Marinelli was ranked higher in the 165 rankings.

 

Or is P4P. Something That's very undefined and we wrestling fans just like to throw out there to emphasize how good someone is?

It's obviously not defined.  It's a made up abstract version of something that is already made up in the first place (regular rankings). 

 

And no, I don't think it's just a gap thing.  It's how good you are in your chosen weight.  Gap means little to me.  I already said very clearly that margin of victory is all but useless as a future predictor.  To me it's how good of a 211 lb guy is Snyder.  Who does he beat?  Who does he lose to?  How often does he compete and in what competitions?  What level of competition does he face in his weight even if he doesn't match up with them in a tournament?  If you ever compete outside of your weight how do you look?  Specific for International FS purposes is it an Olympic weight?  Was it at Worlds/Olympics?  Can you do it outside your home continent with time zone issues?  Have you beaten all the key competitors at your weight or did you avoid key guys when you won?

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It was a good bracket in a weak field following an Olympic year. He hasn't beaten anyone even remotely close to the guys Dake and Taylor have walloped.

Wins outside of world competition are almost meaningless at the international level.  You have no idea who cares how much in those matches.  These guys peak for Worlds and nothing else.  That doesn't mean the matches weren't wrestled and the guys didn't compete, but it does mean counting them more than Worlds matches is plain dumb.  It's also hilarious that you knock Gilman for winning a world medal the year after the Olympics but credit Taylor for beating a bunch of guys the year after the Olympics in non-worlds competition.  

 

The attempts by some to erase Gilman's great medal while elevating a bunch of great off season wins is absurd.  

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Wins outside of world competition are almost meaningless at the international level. You have no idea who cares how much in those matches. These guys peak for Worlds and nothing else. That doesn't mean the matches weren't wrestled and the guys didn't compete, but it does mean counting them more than Worlds matches is plain dumb. It's also hilarious that you knock Gilman for winning a world medal the year after the Olympics but credit Taylor for beating a bunch of guys the year after the Olympics in non-worlds competition.

 

The attempts by some to erase Gilman's great medal while elevating a bunch of great off season wins is absurd.

 

They can both be knocked, and then you are left with the fact that Dake and Taylor have decisively beaten much better wrestlers than gilman has.

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Cael coached Varner to an Olympic Gold Medal. And Taylor and Dake are better than Gilman no matter how much you protest otherwise.

Go back and read what I said if you want to talk "facts". I said a Penn State wrestler under Cael. Varner was a Cyclone. Fact. When did I protest or comment on whether Gilman was better than Dake or Taylor? I said Gilman has more silver than both of them combined. Also a fact. Don't twist people's words and comments around to go along with your thoughts, it's an ugly look

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Another thing. He talks about Gilman wrestling water down competition and then he brings up Jake Varner from Iowa state. LMAO

 

Molinaro was about 1/2 away from a World medal, just couldn't seal the deal. His hair got in the way me thinks. Ha

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They can both be knocked, and then you are left with the fact that Dake and Taylor have decisively beaten much better wrestlers than gilman has.

Listen to yourself knocking a world finals appearance because you don't like where the guy went to college.  You usually don't have this utter lack of perspective but something about this argument has made you abandon all logic.

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Listen to yourself knocking a world finals appearance because you don't like where the guy went to college. You usually don't have this utter lack of perspective but something about this argument has made you abandon all logic.

No, he nearly always lacks any sense of objectivity or perspective. Actually, he and his twin Bigtenfan are the biggest idiots on these boards.

It’s all PSU, or it doesn’t want matter. Tripping over himself to discredit a world silver medal is just about inline with this creep.

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No, he nearly always lacks any sense of objectivity or perspective. Actually, he and his twin Bigtenfan are the biggest idiots on these boards.

It’s all PSU, or it doesn’t want matter. Tripping over himself to discredit a world silver medal is just about inline with this creep.

 

LOL. The pride of New Jersey is calling someone else an idiot.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

FYI I have family that lives in New Jersey.

My brother owns a house in Somerville NJ.

My wife went to Cherry Hill East HS.

We own a shore house in Sea Isle.

 

New Jersey is embarrassed by you.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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Go back and read what I said if you want to talk "facts". I said a Penn State wrestler under Cael. Varner was a Cyclone. Fact. When did I protest or comment on whether Gilman was better than Dake or Taylor? I said Gilman has more silver than both of them combined. Also a fact. Don't twist people's words and comments around to go along with your thoughts, it's an ugly look

 

 

At the time Varner was NLWC. I knew you'd make a big deal of that. Just who you are. 

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Listen to yourself knocking a world finals appearance because you don't like where the guy went to college.  You usually don't have this utter lack of perspective but something about this argument has made you abandon all logic.

 

 

Do you honestly think Gilman is better than Dake and Taylor. Not talking medals, talking ability. Be honest. 

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LOL. The pride of New Jersey is calling someone else an idiot.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black.

 

FYI I have family that lives in New Jersey.

My brother owns a house in Somerville NJ.

My wife went to Cherry Hill East HS.

We own a shore house in Sea Isle.

 

New Jersey is embarrassed by you.

 

 

Don't let that joker get to you. 

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No, he nearly always lacks any sense of objectivity or perspective. Actually, he and his twin Bigtenfan are the biggest idiots on these boards.

It’s all PSU, or it doesn’t want matter. Tripping over himself to discredit a world silver medal is just about inline with this creep.

 

 

You are the idiot who claimed Suriano was going to beat Spencer Lee, except he didn't. So much for your personal genius. 

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With that said...

 

Can someone PLEASE explain to me the logic of the time when Vincezo Joseph was ranked ahead of Alex Marinelli in the P4P rankings while being ranked behind in him the 165lbs rankings?

I think the logic was marinelli won the match, but if you took the best wrestlers across every weight and made weight even, they felt cenzo would perform better or something. I think they explained that for other p4p ranking before but i could be wrong.

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With that said...

 

Can someone PLEASE explain to me the logic of the time when Vincezo Joseph was ranked ahead of Alex Marinelli in the P4P rankings while being ranked behind in him the 165lbs rankings?

 

its an excellent point. The answer is that rankings are a pseudo science dominated by charlatans. 

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