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TobusRex

Who is replacing Zain at PSU

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RBY is extremely talented and will only improve in PSU's room.

 

I will not be the least bit surprised if he AA's. However, he is making his D1 debut in arguably THE toughest weight class.

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Hypothetical.

 

If Cael thinks he can win without Lee's points he might just redshirt him. If Ohio State punts and he thinks he can beat Iowa and Ok State, then why not? Get an extra year for Lee on the back end.

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Yeah, I don't think we've seen enough quality folkstyle wins out of Verk to justify redshirting Lee. 

 

Yet after thinking about it a bit why the heck would Verk be weighing in 6 pounds UNDER 149 if he was planning to go that during the season.  That seems like a really bad strategy....

 

Maybe Lee will do a "wait and see" redshirt like last year - just do opens and unattached at the beginning to see how Verk pans out. 

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If they're in the low 130's at least they're catchable. I think they'll be in the 140's again though, barring injury. I can't see either Iowa or Ohio State getting there, even with strong outperformance.

I don't see how tOSU is even in this conversation. PSU loses Retherford, tOSU loses the greatest US wrestler since John Smith and two very good guys in NATO and BOJO.

 

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Almost everyone is back plus possibly Fix and Suriano (who will be in the hunt).

Almost everyone is back at 133 next year and I still think RBY can make top 8 by March, but we'll see.

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Silly to piss away Lee's points. Especially with bonus potential. I don't believe it.

Agreed. Unless PSU is throwing in the towel like they did in the Mega and Retherford RS year, there is no way Lee redshirts.

 

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Hypothetical.

 

If Cael thinks he can win without Lee's points he might just redshirt him. If Ohio State punts and he thinks he can beat Iowa and Ok State, then why not? Get an extra year for Lee on the back end.

tOSU is not a title contender in 2019.

 

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tOSU is not a title contender in 2019.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

 

I think Ohio State can outscore Iowa or Oklahoma State. No guarantee of that, of course, but I am not ruling them out. I don't see how they catch Penn State, though, which can lead to the whole punt theory. 

 

PSU is not punting though. They will win it again, imo. What they can do is if other teams hold guys back, they could do the same to stretch out eligibility. 

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I think Ohio State can outscore Iowa or Oklahoma State. No guarantee of that, of course, but I am not ruling them out. I don't see how they catch Penn State, though, which can lead to the whole punt theory.

 

PSU is not punting though. They will win it again, imo. What they can do is if other teams hold guys back, they could do the same to stretch out eligibility.

A way too early prediction :

1. PSU

2. Ohio St.

3. Iowa

4. Oklahoma St. / Michigan / NC St. / Missouri / Cornell

 

4th thru 8th could be very competitive IMO.

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As much as I detest arrogant PSU fan, the smart money is always on Cael.  There is almost always a wrestler ready to step in and win and usually at a very high level by season's end.  They will have ten AA candidates in their lineup next season and Hall, Joseph and Nickal are near unstoppable (will help if they avoid Valencia).  They will win the team title comfortably because they will have the best prepared wrestlers by season's end.  Iowa might elbow their way in for second and feel good about it.  

Edited by silver-medal

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As much as I detest arrogant PSU fan, the smart money is always on Cael. There is almost always a wrestler ready to step in and win and usually at a very high level by season's end. They will have ten AA candidates in their lineup next season and Hall, Joseph and Nickal are near unstoppable (will help if they avoid Valencia). They will win the team title comfortably because they will have the best prepared wrestlers by season's end. Iowa might elbow their way in for second and feel good about it.

Crazy thing is, you left out the most dominant guy of them all!!!!

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What is the story on Manville? Is he just happy training Greco with Provisor?

 

 

He must be because he is not likely to beat out Cenzo or Hall. I doubt he could go 157 or 184 either, so what is left?

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I don't see how tOSU is even in this conversation. PSU loses Retherford, tOSU loses the greatest US wrestler since John Smith and two very good guys in NATO and BOJO.

 

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Nobody is really "in the conversation" if that's how you want to look at it.  I think at this point all we're trying to do is figure out who could theoretically catch PSU.  MSU is saying ~130 points... I'd say ~140 but we're splitting hairs at that point.  So the question is what team can score 130+ at the high end of their potential outcomes?

 

- I could see Iowa getting to 130+ but they have a ton of question marks. They probably need 8 AA's and 3 finalists to hit 130, so DeSanto, Murin, Wilcke, Warner all need to come through.  They need big points out of Kemerer but we have no idea how he'll perform at 174, which is strong at the top even if Zahid moves up.  

 

- Oklahoma State's absolute top end is probably ~130, but that requires a virtually perfect performance.  Talking 10 AA's and 1 champ in Fix.  Their issue is they only have 1 title contender, and their recent history at NCAA's probably doesn't point toward a perfect outcome.  

 

- Ohio State, if they put out their optimal 2019 "win now" lineup, could score 130+ but it's unlikely.  What they do have going for them are 3 title contenders in McKenna, Martin, Moore.  With 8 AA's and 2 champs they could hit the mid 130's, but that requires 3 of Hayes, Singletary, Campbell, and Romero to AA, which IMO is a stretch. 

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133 looks to be crazy deep and could have some literal monsters in Gross, Fix, Suriano, Micic, Wilson and Vito. That doesn't even account for AA's in Pletcher and Parker. If RBY AA's he will have navigated one of the best fields a TF has done in some time!

I think Fix will be at 125. Gross is a monster, the rest I wouldn’t call “monsters.” Suriano a monster at 125, he’ll be “very good” at 133. RBY more athletic than anyone at this weight. This isn’t freestyle so I won’t worry about Vito lacing him across the mat.

 

We’ll see how it plays out but if I were picking 133 right now..

 

Gross

Suriano

Micic

RBY

Wilson

Pletcher

Vito

DeSanto

 

Obviously I’m very high on RBY. Yes I’m a PSU fan, but I haven’t been Wrong over the years picking freshman and where they’d end up. I called Hall pre season. I called Cenzo as finalist, Nolf finalist, Bo finalist all before they stepped on mat their freshman years. So this year’s top 4 freshman from PSU will be RBY. I think Berge AA’s. 4-8. 125 I’ll pick round 12

 

Edit..I also called Yianni last year and Spencer

 

And before anyone chimes in with “who has he beaten,” I go by my eyeballs.

 

 

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Edited by pish6969

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I think Fix will be at 125. Gross is a monster, the rest I wouldn’t call “monsters.” Suriano a monster at 125, he’ll be “very good” at 133. RBY more athletic than anyone at this weight. This isn’t freestyle so I won’t worry about Vito lacing him across the mat.

 

We’ll see how it plays out but if I were picking 133 right now..

 

Gross

Suriano

Micic

RBY

Wilson

Pletcher

Vito

DeSanto

 

Obviously I’m very high on RBY. Yes I’m a PSU fan, but I haven’t been Wrong over the years picking freshman and where they’d end up. I called Hall pre season. I called Cenzo as finalist, Nolf finalist, Bo finalist all before they stepped on mat their freshman years. So this year’s top 4 freshman from PSU will be RBY. I think Berge AA’s. 4-8. 125 I’ll pick round 12

 

And before anyone chimes in with “who has he beaten,” I go by my eyeballs.

 

 

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Smart move to trust your own eyes. That "but who has he beaten" thought process becomes moot when the new guy is just better than most of the old guys. 

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I think Fix will be at 125. Gross is a monster, the rest I wouldn’t call “monsters.” Suriano a monster at 125, he’ll be “very good” at 133. RBY more athletic than anyone at this weight. This isn’t freestyle so I won’t worry about Vito lacing him across the mat.

 

We’ll see how it plays out but if I were picking 133 right now..

 

Gross

Suriano

Micic

RBY

Wilson

Pletcher

Vito

DeSanto

 

Obviously I’m very high on RBY. Yes I’m a PSU fan, but I haven’t been Wrong over the years picking freshman and where they’d end up. I called Hall pre season. I called Cenzo as finalist, Nolf finalist, Bo finalist all before they stepped on mat their freshman years. So this year’s top 4 freshman from PSU will be RBY. I think Berge AA’s. 4-8. 125 I’ll pick round 12

 

And before anyone chimes in with “who has he beaten,” I go by my eyeballs.

 

 

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He will also have to contend with Lizak's riding without that huge first year of getting used to DI riding.

 

Hey, I don't doubt PSU upperweights.  The track record is outstanding.  However, with the exception of Nico, they haven't exactly lit the world on fire from 125-141.  Now, I do believe RBY will prove to be a top guy, BUT as a TF against probably the deepest field at ANY weight, I just can't pick him to AA preseason.

 

Your eyes or not, you just don't have ANY data to support it.  Let's revisit it in mid-January.  As I said a bunch last year,  PSU has done too much to doubt them.  However, RBY isn't at a weight thinned out like Berge.  A lot of these guys are very physical and very tough on top.  These are the most difficult factors for a TF to get past.

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Your eyes or not, you just don't have ANY data to support it. Let's revisit it in mid-January. As I said a bunch last year, PSU has done too much to doubt them. However, RBY isn't at a weight thinned out like Berge. A lot of these guys are very physical and very tough on top. These are the most difficult factors for a TF to get past.

Believe it or not I have come to respect your knowledge. The difference between me and you is I pick the winner earlier.

 

You have always been one to take wait and see approach which is fine but not truly predictive since it’s already happened.

 

For example when you picked Zain for 4th going into sophomore year which was crazy.

 

I just don’t see the 133 class as juggernauts like you and others. The only elite wrestlers I see there are Gross and Suriano. Micic is very good as well but besides those three I’ll go with the athlete. RBY a better version of Wilson.

 

Yes we can revisit in January, but that’s not as much fun as putting it out there before they hit the mats

 

P.S..I’ll give you another early pick. Aaron Brooks will win it all as a frosh in 2019/2020

 

 

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Edited by pish6969

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Believe it or not I have come to respect your knowledge. The difference between me and you is I pick the winner earlier.

 

You have always been one to take wait and see approach which is fine but not truly predictive since it’s already happened.

 

For example when you picked Zain for 4th going into sophomore year which was crazy.

 

I just don’t see the 133 class as juggernauts like you and others. The only elite wrestlers I see there are Gross and Suriano. Micic is very good as well but besides those three I’ll go with the athlete. RBY a better version of Wilson.

 

Yes we can revisit in January, but that’s not as much fun as putting it out there before they hit the mats

 

 

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Again, I mainly go by data to start the season.  In the case of Zain, he was bumping up a weight and there was very little data to support his running through 149.  Hell, he didn't even wrestle a DI match while redshirting.  Tsirtsis, Sorenson and Clagon were all returning.  Also, to be fair, he wasn't exactly a bonus pt. machine his 1st year.  He mainly won on the strength of his riding.

 

So, as a guy that isn't in the room watching them practice, I needed to see a solid portion of his 1st year at 149 to really see how much he had improved.  By, B1G's you could tell that Tsirtsis had truly regressed and Zain had fully distanced himself from the pack.

 

Finally, I don't argue that RBY sure looks like a legit athlete.  Where my contention lies is with the maturity gap.  The physicality difference is hard to measure and I don't think RBY can match the NCAA version of Wilson.  Hell, he was even muscling Gross around and Gross was probably the most "physical" guy at the weight.

 

Any which way, you are blessed with untold riches as a PSU fan.  Pick one their guys to win right away and the odds are in your favor!

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Again, I mainly go by data to start the season.  In the case of Zain, he was bumping up a weight and there was very little data to support his running through 149.  Hell, he didn't even wrestle a DI match while redshirting.  Tsirtsis, Sorenson and Clagon were all returning.  Also, to be fair, he wasn't exactly a bonus pt. machine his 1st year.  He mainly won on the strength of his riding.

 

So, as a guy that isn't in the room watching them practice, I needed to see a solid portion of his 1st year at 149 to really see how much he had improved.  By, B1G's you could tell that Tsirtsis had truly regressed and Zain had fully distanced himself from the pack.

 

Finally, I don't argue that RBY sure looks like a legit athlete.  Where my contention lies is with the maturity gap.  The physicality difference is hard to measure and I don't think RBY can match the NCAA version of Wilson.  Hell, he was even muscling Gross around and Gross was probably the most "physical" guy at the weight.

 

Any which way, you are blessed with untold riches as a PSU fan.  Pick one their guys to win right away and the odds are in your favor!

 

 

 

MSU, Zain lost to only two guys his true freshman year, the top guy 2x and the #2 guy who barely beat him in OT. Zain also dismantled Henderson in free during the offseason. His resume was better than Sorenson's or Clagon's. Tsirtsis had a better resume, but Zain was really coming on. I could see picking him 2nd, but 4th was a stretch imo.

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