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Article about Snyder-Sadulaev match

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Both are prodigies wouldn't you think? Snyder had 3 world and Olympic golds as does Sadulaev. Snyder happened to get the best of it in a close match. I really hope a rematch is in the cards somewhere.

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Hubris is absolutely not saying you are happy a guy moved up and then winning the resulting match.  You are not even close to the definition of Hubris.  

 

If he lost, it would be perceived as hubris by many. I think the author perceived a Snyder loss as a something that would illustrate hubris--not necessarily that it would be caused by hubris and need punished, but that in retrospect, his comments and actions would look like hubris to many. 

 

His twitter handle alludes to Spiderman, he wears singlets of other super heroes, he is a supremely confident person--many wrestling fans see this thing and say, "you gotta be good to wear that singlet," meaning that we seem to love the arrogance of someone unless they fall like Icarus. 

 

If other athletes competed in super hero uniforms, wouldn't people call that person cocky, wouldn't people possibly call it hubris? Again, I love Snyder's attitude, but the article is great literature--it makes you question your assumptions and creates a space full of interpretation by offering its own interpretation. 

 

Snyder could have been Icarus, but he didn't fall--he transcended this comparison with victory--he was also compared to Zeus in the article.

Maybe Tom Ryan and Tervel are Deadalus giving Snyder/Icarus wings. 

Minos could have been Sad. trapping all of the world championships he could in his tower or labyrinth. 

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​

 

jcjcjc, I appreciate the poem you linked to, where Icarus fell and nobody really cared or noticed. I think it's a stretch to say that's the kind of reference that the writer was making, though. A lengthy piece like this could have afforded a few phrases to make that distinction if it were the intention. I think it was common hyperbole in the context of all the cultural associations and the political issues vaguely referenced - where people observing the exact same scene are often interpreting drastically different meanings. 

 

 

I like your point. I'm not saying that author would have not cared that Snyder lost, but he wouldn't have been as concerned about him as he seemed to be for Sad. 

 

I geek out on text-to-text connections, so thank for all your comments. 

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Why not both?

because that is what he has not been sold by the media...

 

there is no reason why you should not be allowed to appreciate excellence no matter where it was born... 

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I like your point. I'm not saying that author would have not cared that Snyder lost, but he wouldn't have been as concerned about him as he seemed to be for Sad. 

 

I geek out on text-to-text connections, so thank for all your comments. 

 

backatcha on the comments!

 

It was also interesting to me that the author landed in Sadulaev's corner. He seemed equally infatuated with both at first, but then seemed to pivot on their reactions to opponents and one another. 

 

Ever since Snyder's breakout Senior-Level season, his reaction to realizing his accomplishments have been very raw and plainly human - Varner, followed by the run on the 2015 Worlds capped by beating Gadisov. It was unreal, and we watched the kid adjust to our new reality. My interpretation of that season was that Snyder's Faith was superseding his expectations. He was realizing a vision that he believed in more than he had calculated. He seemed surprised, and we loved it!

I don't know when Kyle will be considered a real favorite, and I kinda hope he never is because he succeeds so well as the underdog.

Anyway, I don't share his Faith, but i respect it. I don't think that he's due for any kind of epic fall either. Sure, he'll take an occasional loss, and he'll make adjustments like we've seen very recently. 

 

I think the Icarus analogy is expected because we're dealing with two young phenoms. It's also useful for the politics of the article, but I'll leave that here. I'll hope for numerous epic analogies in the future as well! 

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backatcha on the comments!

 

It was also interesting to me that the author landed in Sadulaev's corner. He seemed equally infatuated with both at first, but then seemed to pivot on their reactions to opponents and one another. 

 

Ever since Snyder's breakout Senior-Level season, his reaction to realizing his accomplishments have been very raw and plainly human - Varner, followed by the run on the 2015 Worlds capped by beating Gadisov. It was unreal, and we watched the kid adjust to our new reality. My interpretation of that season was that Snyder's Faith was superseding his expectations. He was realizing a vision that he believed in more than he had calculated. He seemed surprised, and we loved it!

I don't know when Kyle will be considered a real favorite, and I kinda hope he never is because he succeeds so well as the underdog.

Anyway, I don't share his Faith, but i respect it. I don't think that he's due for any kind of epic fall either. Sure, he'll take an occasional loss, and he'll make adjustments like we've seen very recently. 

 

I think the Icarus analogy is expected because we're dealing with two young phenoms. It's also useful for the politics of the article, but I'll leave that here. I'll hope for numerous epic analogies in the future as well! 

 

I enjoy the Icarus analogy, but I don't expect it to become true for Kyle, but I see how Snyder's exuberance appears like Icarus to someone in the arena. 

 

How impactful would Kyle Snyder's yells be when heard and seen from just thirty feet away? Wow...especially with Sad. just standing there like he's about to read the paper, haha. 

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because that is what he has not been sold by the media...

 

there is no reason why you should not be allowed to appreciate excellence no matter where it was born...

I don’t think that’s the case here. I think Billy (and myself) were referring to Wfan stating Snyder is great, but Dadulaev is a prodigy.

If Snyder isn’t a prodigy, who is?

 

Agree?

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clearly, they are both great wrestlers... both will be talked about long after they quit competing...

 

i just think one of them has displayed more dominance than the other regardless of head to head... and i am always going to go with guy who actually has par terre chops... 

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clearly, they are both great wrestlers... both will be talked about long after they quit competing...

 

i just think one of them has displayed more dominance than the other regardless of head to head... and i am always going to go with guy who actually has par terre chops...

I agree, but I’m not a fan of excuse making. In this case, apologies for Sadulaev.

If he didn’t prepare properly, that’s i”on him. If he bit off more than he could chew by going up, that’s on him.

Hell, I don’t like guys making excuses when they’re bumped up in a dual meet, despite weighing in down a weight.

Sad weighed in at Snyder’s class. They wrestled. Could the results change? Sure, but the only match they’ve actually wrestled can’t be dismissed. Does that make sense?

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I agree, but I’m not a fan of excuse making. In this case, apologies for Sadulaev.

If he didn’t prepare properly, that’s i”on him. If he bit off more than he could chew by going up, that’s on him.

Hell, I don’t like guys making excuses when they’re bumped up in a dual meet, despite weighing in down a weight.

Sad weighed in at Snyder’s class. They wrestled. Could the results change? Sure, but the only match they’ve actually wrestled can’t be dismissed. Does that make sense?

 

I think it's nonsense to ignore any factor that might contribute to the outcome of a match and just call it an "excuse."  Snyder is a much better wrestler than Adam Coon, but lost to him because of weight.  Similarly, while the weight difference was smaller, it's not unreasonable to suggest Sadulaev will win a rematch against Snyder when he fills into a larger 97 kg wrestler.  That doesn't dismiss the result, but it does present a potential for a different outcome in the future. 

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I think it's nonsense to ignore any factor that might contribute to the outcome of a match and just call it an "excuse." Snyder is a much better wrestler than Adam Coon, but lost to him because of weight. Similarly, while the weight difference was smaller, it's not unreasonable to suggest Sadulaev will win a rematch against Snyder when he fills into a larger 97 kg wrestler. That doesn't dismiss the result, but it does present a potential for a different outcome in the future.

In NCAA wrestling, the jump from 197 to Hwt is 88lbs, a massive jump.

Much less so in Intl freestyle.

Sadulaev made a conscious decision, in advance, to go up.

He prepared for it (to the extent he dedicated himself), and was beaten. It wasn’t like he missed weight by .2lbs, and had to bump.

What was there, perhaps an 8-10lbs difference? Coon had Snyder by 50lbs easily, if not more.

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In NCAA wrestling, the jump from 197 to Hwt is 88lbs, a massive jump.

Much less so in Intl freestyle.

Sadulaev made a conscious decision, in advance, to go up.

He prepared for it (to the extent he dedicated himself), and was beaten. It wasn’t like he missed weight by .2lbs, and had to bump.

What was there, perhaps an 8-10lbs difference? Coon had Snyder by 50lbs easily, if not more.

It was not as large of a jump, but 24 pounds in one year is a lot to put on. 8-10 pounds when the two best wrestlers in the world are competing against each other makes a difference.

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It brings up an interesting point. sadulaev will not be a full size 97 IMO...ever. He's not as big of a guy as Snyder, period. He will always suffer the size disadvantage against him. I don't believe his optimum wrestling weight is anywhere near 97 nor will it ever be. I don't care what he does, other than roids, just look at them next to each other.

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- The difference was definitely not 8-10 pounds, Sad weighed in at around 92kg. Snyder close to 100kg or more I assume, that is about 20 pounds.

 

- steen, yep, he will never be a natural 97kg wrestler, he walks around 92/93kg max. Sad said 92kg is ideal for him, but he will go to 97kg. 

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Sad looked like Snyder ripped his heart out after the loss.

 

 

 

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

This,as I have said several times. His coaches blamed it on not taking his, cough cough, vitamins.

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People who don't think that world class athletes are uber-confident are sadly mistaken. You don't get that far without belief in yourself. So Snyder "rage-flexed" after winning the biggest match in decades (a comeback win) and clinching the world team title? Does he always behave like this? I don't think so. To compare that to Sad easily defeating a Cuban ... not the same thing. (also, what is the record of Cubans in world/Olympic finals in the 20th century?)

 

And the religion of Snyder, Burroughs, and Maroulis is front and center of the article, whereas it is barely mentioned for Sad, if at all. And this is despite the fact that Sad is extremely devout. Is Islam mentioned, yes... but not with the frequency of Christianity or the disdain.

 

I'll repeat: The author has some issues with middle America, Christianity, etc.

You mean there is a bias among an author. Shocker. I have a bias against pious Republican JEEZUS types like you (read the Bible; savage AF). I think you are a hypocrite at best, and your morals are from a book that describes dead babies and bestiality porn. I will pass on such morals. Yet I give Snyder a pass because he is my favorite active wrestler and I don't care about his faith. So give your support of a Republican Jesus version of religion and persecution complex a rest. Well unless you want to defend your political oriented savage faith to me. I am game, most take a pass.

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sgallan, not really, don't make things up :)

Ah, cheap shot from another American wrestling follower troll. Thanks for sharing. I hate humans in general, I despise ignorant wrestling fans because they should know better.

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- The difference was definitely not 8-10 pounds, Sad weighed in at around 92kg. Snyder close to 100kg or more I assume, that is about 20 pounds.

 

- steen, yep, he will never be a natural 97kg wrestler, he walks around 92/93kg max. Sad said 92kg is ideal for him, but he will go to 97kg.

So Snyder weighed in at 100KGs to wrestle 97KG at worlds? Interesting. So it was like an exhibition? No strict weight classes?

Your excuses so Sad no justice.

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You mean there is a bias among an author. Shocker. I have a bias against pious Republican JEEZUS types like you (read the Bible; savage AF). I think you are a hypocrite at best, and your morals are from a book that describes dead babies and bestiality porn. I will pass on such morals. Yet I give Snyder a pass because he is my favorite active wrestler and I don't care about his faith. So give your support of a Republican Jesus version of religion and persecution complex a rest. Well unless you want to defend your political oriented savage faith to me. I am game, most take a pass.

You realize you need help, don’t you? I’ve seen your act on here before, you’re a whack job.

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You realize you need help, don’t you? I’ve seen your act on here before, you’re a whack job.

LOL, I will add "whack job" to my list of why humans hate other humans.

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So Snyder weighed in at 100KGs to wrestle 97KG at worlds? Interesting. So it was like an exhibition? No strict weight classes?

Your excuses so Sad no justice.

snyder has said he walks at about 223... sadulaeuv weighed in at 92... let a 12 year old help you with the math

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again,

 he stepped on the mat... he lost... is what is...

 

but only a truly ignorant fan boi would not recognize the reality of the situation...

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