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Valencia vs. Dake

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Dake is a stud .... Valencia is as well.   I expected good matches but expected Dake to win with the kind of comfort he had in match one.  That sweet ankle pick by V in the 2nd match made things quite exciting.  Very impressive.  

 

Dake is so damn threatening when it comes to other shot situations though.  ZV had to have too much respect when he got in.  No other choice.  

 

Great matches.  Kudos to both.

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Dake gets beat when people either get in strong and finish strong, or get in strong and finish with an angle. Once you get a lead on him he struggles in the elite matches. ZV went finesse instead of strong against Dake. Bad strategy. I am thinking Dake's counters got into his head. He adapted but not enough. He gets it next year. But the log jam of athletes at 86 in 2020 is amazing.

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I don’t think Valencia gets Dake next year. The gap is still significant and I don’t see it erased in a year. Anyway, he should move up to get his body ready for 2020.

 

Saw the second match. Didn't seem too much of a gap. ZV got to the legs a few times but stopped. Not sure why he didn't go defensive when he was up, played into Dakes strength. He will learn, he's young.  

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I don’t think Valencia gets Dake next year. The gap is still significant and I don’t see it erased in a year. Anyway, he should move up to get his body ready for 2020.

I wouldn't bet on my prediction. Dake is obviously really good. But Zahids history is always going up. Literally since he was 5 or 6. More recently loses to Hall, okay that year is done, and then dominates him the next year (his brother has never gotten over the shadow of his younger brother). He loves to wrestle. Doesn't get rattled. Always looking to improve. The young gun attitude of loving the sport and moving on from one year to the next. Lee has it. Fix has it. Gilman has it. And others. Snyder is the poster child for this mentality and it works. My .02.

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ZV will have the same problem against Dake that DT had. He’s not as athletic and he’s not as good offensively as Dake is defensively. I think ZV may be better defensively than DT, though, so that’s significant, but Dake turned him like a cheap top when he got on top and scored fairly easily off of ZV’s shots. Just my opinion, but terrible matchup for ZV. It’s very difficult to close those kinds of gaps, although the score may get closer every other match or so, as the second match was relative to the shutout.

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ZV will have the same problem against Dake that DT had. He’s not as athletic and he’s not as good offensively as Dake is defensively. I think ZV may be better defensively than DT, though, so that’s significant, but Dake turned him like a cheap top when he got on top and scored fairly easily off of ZV’s shots. Just my opinion, but terrible matchup for ZV. It’s very difficult to close those kinds of gaps, although the score may get closer every other match or so, as the second match was relative to the shutout.

I would suggest that ZV is every bit as athletic as Dake, he just doesn't always go there. See the scramble with Hall. Just amazing. The key to beating Zahid is to get him wrestling, for lack of a better word, static. Dake is great at doing this. The key for Zahid is if he can adapt like he did with Hall. It all may be moot as I have heard Cox is all in now. He has everything the other guys have and is bigger.

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We can just disagree on which of two highly athletic athletes is more athletic, since that disagreement will never be resolved. But you keep referring to the matches with Hall as a clear sign of how ZV might leapfrog Dake. I don’t think that’s a good comparison. Not only is Hall not Dake, but even when Zahid lost to Hall, I thought he was the better wrestler who lost on a technicality, so I do not think the improvement year over year was that pronounced to begin with. Zahid was already wrestling at a very high level last year, as his shellacking of a bigger Bo Nickal is testament.

 

When I watched the matches tonight, I was reminded of Dake vs DT. Terrible stylistic matchup against a guy with an athletic edge. Since Zahid would have to cut off one of his long-ass legs to make 74 kg, I expect him to move up to 86 kg, and if he’s smart, he’ll do that immediately, so this may all be a moot point.

 

All in or not, I think ZV has a good shot of taking Cox out if he spends the time to add size like I keep suggesting he should do right away.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I think the mistake that a lot of people are making and have been making for some time is thinking that wrestling a match where the score is close with Dake is the same thing as being close to beating Dake. People kept saying that about Taylor until it became obvious that Dake just had his number. People said it about Howe. Now they are saying it about Ringer and Zahid. KD is really good at winning when the score is close and winning ugly. It may feel like you are right there, so close to beating him, but he will beat you 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 times.

 

JB is better than Dake. Cox was just too big for him. But outside of that, there is a huge field of US wrestlers who have wrestled matches with Dake where the score was close, but who are not close to beating Dake.

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I think the mistake that a lot of people are making and have been making for some time is thinking that wrestling a match where the score is close with Dake is the same thing as being close to beating Dake. People kept saying that about Taylor until it became obvious that Dake just had his number. People said it about Howe. Now they are saying it about Ringer and Zahid. KD is really good at winning when the score is close and winning ugly. It may feel like you are right there, so close to beating him, but he will beat you 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 times.

JB is better than Dake. Cox was just too big for him. But outside of that, there is a huge field of US wrestlers who have wrestled matches with Dake where the score was close, but who are not close to beating Dake.

Agreed.

Dake can totally dominate someone and win by 1 point. I happens pretty regularly for him.

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How many guys does Dake have to beat before we at least give him the benefit of the doubt? At 74 kg he lost to Burroughs in a series of  increasingly competitive matches and at 79 kg he has lost to Gadzhimagomedov. As I pointed out during all the Dieringer talk Dake was 4-0 against him. That didn't mean Ringer was not competitive or that he had no shot, but there was no reason to pick Ringer over him in the best out of 3. Then Valencia beats Ringer and all of the sudden people start picking him even though the style matchup is not in his favor and Dake is simply very good. A 2-0 sweep is a 2-0 sweep.

 

As to Valencia, I am sort of getting the same vibe I got with Cox. We will see.  

Edited by straggler

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I think the mistake that a lot of people are making and have been making for some time is thinking that wrestling a match where the score is close with Dake is the same thing as being close to beating Dake. People kept saying that about Taylor until it became obvious that Dake just had his number. People said it about Howe. Now they are saying it about Ringer and Zahid. KD is really good at winning when the score is close and winning ugly. It may feel like you are right there, so close to beating him, but he will beat you 9 out of 10 or 10 out of 10 times.

 

JB is better than Dake. Cox was just too big for him. But outside of that, there is a huge field of US wrestlers who have wrestled matches with Dake where the score was close, but who are not close to beating Dake.

I mostly agree although I think it's too soon to say with certainty that Zahid won't figure out a way past Dake.  While I probably sound like every Taylor fan in history, it just seems too soon to expect that outcome.  But your point about the long list of American wrestlers who have come close but not beaten Dake is understood.  

Edited by silver-medal

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