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WillieBoy

Does this mean Iowa challenges PSU this year, really?

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Barring injury problems does the recent uptick in quality wrestlers hitting the Squawkeye room mean Iowa is gunning for first this year instead of Third?

 

Getting more high level guys again no matter the reason - is good for all.

 

Oklahoma State - are they a real threat or not?

 

Ohio State - a step back this year? 

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By January Penn State will be a 25 point underdog to some other team. They are every other year so I don't see why this year would be any different. Iowa is the new sexy pick to be this year's "team that will beat Penn State". In the end Penn State wins comfortably. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Having a finalist "lock" in 4-5 straight weight classes is incredible. Every other weight for PSU could AA.

 

I think Iowa makes it interesting for sure. I think the battle for top 4 next year will be much more exciting than the past two years.

 

TOSU will be down, but will have major studs in Pletcher, McKenna, Mijo, Hayes, Romero, Mymar, and Moore.

Edited by treep2000

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Iowa has a lot more uncertainties than Penn State. The reality is Iowa has 1 champ and 3 additional AAs returning next year vs. Penn State's 3 returning champs, 1 returning finalist (former champ) and 3 additional AAs. Based on actual results and not fantasy upside, it would appear that Iowa isn't going to challenge Penn State next year even if a few guys do improve on previous placing. Not that Iowa doesn't have a very solid team, serious contender for 2nd place.

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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In part, I agree with Tigsy.  Pre-Season, PSU should be considered a heavy favorite.  Their hammers are too proven to be evenly compared.  Still, the potential, with the way several weights shake out, is why I think Iowa could challenge.

 

125:Lee-Should be good for 25+ and is the one true guy that compares to the PSU "Big 4".--------Teske/Teasdale-Any points here is a bonus, but I just don't see it, I think they both really need a redshirt.

From a preseason standpoint, this is a 25 point gap for Iowa, but could prove to be less if either PSU guy develops.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +25  My prediction-Iowa +25

 

133:DeSanto/Renteria-This weight is so deep that they could finish anywhere from 4-R16.--------RBY-This kid is super talented, but by strict pre-season rulings, you still give a huge gap to the proven guy vs. the true freshman.  Still, I would expect the end result to be within a few points.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa+6  My prediction-Iowa +4

 

141:Murin/Turk-From a preseason perspective, the gap should be a bit wider than DeSanto/RBY.  But, 141 thins out heavily after the top 4, so this gap could end up very similar.----- Lee-This kid truly proved himself, but I think he is still clearly behind Yianni, McKenna and Eierman.  I think he will still be clearly ahead of what Iowa puts out at 141, but the talent drops off quite a bit, with maybe the exception of Brock(if he goes 141).  This makes it very doable for a finish only a spot or 2 behind, even if the talent gap is much wider  Pre-Season gap- PSU +10   My prediction- PSU +5

 

149:Lugo-He has had solid, but nothing special results in the post-season.  He also had a strong redshirt.  Still, pre-season should only get him into 7/8 range.-------Berge-The kid is a talent and I think he challenges for an AA spot.  However, pre-season, you have almost NOTHING to prove he should be, other than the fact he wrestles for PSU.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +3   My prediction- Iowa +9

 

From here down PSU pulls WAAAAY ahead as a pre-season favorite:

 

157:Young-Iowa fans love the kid, but he hasn't proven anything. Maybe wins a match or 2 at NCAA's.------------Nolf- I truly think he is the best to ever wrestle at PSU.  The kid was so good that he dominated with a bum leg.  With Kemerer vacating, Hidlay is the only guy that may keep him from 100% bonus this season.  Pre-Season gap-PSU +25  My prediction- PSU +25

 

165:Marinelli-He basically mirrored what I said he would do from the very beginning.  With a year to improve, and hopefully no knee brace, Wick and Joseph are his only true obstacles(unless Massa gets fully healthy and re-invigorated).--------Joseph-What can I say?  He is the most SOLID guy on the PSU roster.  If he sticks to his skillset, he won't light up the scoreboard, but he may never get taken down.  Pre-Season gap- PSU+7  My prediction-PSU +5

 

174:Kemerer-This weight hinges a ton on if Valencia stays.  Kemerer is a top 4 guy and stays that way if he moves up.  With Valencia gone, Hall and Amine are the only 2 I see him having trouble with.  I don't think Lewis's skillset matches up with him well.--------Hall is a talent and, if Valencia vacates the scoring gap should widen a bit.  If not, the difference between 2nd and 3rd/4th is minimal.

Pre-Season gap-PSU+4   My prediction-PSU +5(I think Valencia goes up)

 

184:Wilcke-If it is in fact Rasheed here with Nickal moving up, this weight barely favors PSU.  I see them wrestling for 7th/8th and a 7th for Rasheed last year and 2-R12s in a row for Wilcke supports this.-----------Rasheed-nothing really to add.

Pre-Season gap PSU+3   My prediction-PSU +2

 

197:Warner-He wrestled about as much as a redshirt possibly could.  I think that is enough to give him solid pre-season status.  But, R12 points is all that is reasonable.----Nickal is a machine.  I just need to see him handle the physicality of a Conel or Moore, before fully handing over the crown.  Pre-Season gap  PSU+19   My prediction-PSU +6(Warner is a bit more special than Marinelli and I will hold to this like I did Marinelli last year)

 

285:Stoll-Ignoring the fact that he just had hot lead inserted into his knee, he is the pre-season favorite to win it all.  Dhesi, Steveson and even Nevills could easily prove that wrong, but the 1st 2 are not a certainty to wrestle.----------------Nevills-I think Cassar fighting for the weight hurts here.  I saw the same with Rasheed and Cassar.  That battle took something out of Rasheed and he dropped off at NCAA's.  Nevills is still an AA, but I think he ends up middle of the pack.  Pre-Season gap Iowa +5  My prediction- Iowa +5

 

 

Pre-Season they should be about 30 point favorites(I have them at 29).  That is a big gap.  Prediction wise, I have them losing by 5.  This hinges on Lugo distancing himself from Berge and Warner minimizing the gap with Nickal.  They both should benefit from being at the 2 thinnest weights.  Obviously, it now hinges on how Stoll recovers from a unfathomable situation............

 

I don't see Iowa winning, but they definitely have the potential to make PSU have to show up and wrestle to their potential!

Edited by MSU158

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By January Penn State will be a 25 point underdog to some other team. They are every other year so I don't see why this year would be any different. Iowa is the new sexy pick to be this year's "team that will beat Penn State". In the end Penn State wins comfortably.

Nobody had PSU as the true underdog. You are referencing rankings I assume. In Flo’s intro they specifically said this doesn’t mean they are picking against PSU. They simply assign the relevant placement and advancement points based on rankings.

 

If you then take into account Nolf being injured, it makes sense.

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In part, I agree with Tigsy.  Pre-Season, PSU should be considered a heavy favorite.  Their hammers are too proven to be evenly compared.  Still, the potential, with the way several weights shake out, is why I think Iowa could challenge.

 

125:Lee-Should be good for 25+ and is the one true guy that compares to the PSU "Big 4".--------Teske/Teasdale-Any points here is a bonus, but I just don't see it, I think they both really need a redshirt.

From a preseason standpoint, this is a 25 point gap for Iowa, but could prove to be less if either PSU guy develops.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +25  My prediction-Iowa +25

 

133:DeSanto/Renteria-This weight is so deep that they could finish anywhere from 4-R16.--------RBY-This kid is super talented, but by strict pre-season rulings, you still give a huge gap to the proven guy vs. the true freshman.  Still, I would expect the end result to be within a few points.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa+6  My prediction-Iowa +4

 

141:Murin/Turk-From a preseason perspective, the gap should be a bit wider than DeSanto/RBY.  But, 141 thins out heavily after the top 4, so this gap could end up very similar.----- Lee-This kid truly proved himself, but I think he is still clearly behind Yianni, McKenna and Eierman.  I think he will still be clearly ahead of what Iowa puts out at 141, but the talent drops off quite a bit, with maybe the exception of Brock(if he goes 141).  This makes it very doable for a finish only a spot or 2 behind, even if the talent gap is much wider  Pre-Season gap- PSU +10   My prediction- PSU +5

 

149:Lugo-He has had solid, but nothing special results in the post-season.  He also had a strong redshirt.  Still, pre-season should only get him into 7/8 range.-------Berge-The kid is a talent and I think he challenges for an AA spot.  However, pre-season, you have almost NOTHING to prove he should be, other than the fact he wrestles for PSU.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +3   My prediction- Iowa +9

 

From here down PSU pulls WAAAAY ahead as a pre-season favorite:

 

157:Young-Iowa fans love the kid, but he hasn't proven anything. Maybe wins a match or 2 at NCAA's.------------Nolf- I truly think he is the best to ever wrestle at PSU.  The kid was so good that he dominated with a bum leg.  With Kemerer vacating, Hidlay is the only guy that may keep him from 100% bonus this season.  Pre-Season gap-PSU +25  My prediction- PSU +25

 

165:Marinelli-He basically mirrored what I said he would do from the very beginning.  With a year to improve, and hopefully no knee brace, Wick and Joseph are his only true obstacles(unless Massa gets fully healthy and re-invigorated).--------Joseph-What can I say?  He is the most SOLID guy on the PSU roster.  If he sticks to his skillset, he won't light up the scoreboard, but he may never get taken down.  Pre-Season gap- PSU+7  My prediction-PSU +5

 

174:Kemerer-This weight hinges a ton on if Valencia stays.  Kemerer is a top 4 guy and stays that way if he moves up.  With Valencia gone, Hall and Amine are the only 2 I see him having trouble with.  I don't think Lewis's skillset matches up with him well.--------Hall is a talent and, if Valencia vacates the scoring gap should widen a bit.  If not, the difference between 2nd and 3rd/4th is minimal.

Pre-Season gap-PSU+4   My prediction-PSU +5(I think Valencia goes up)

 

184:Wilcke-If it is in fact Rasheed here with Nickal moving up, this weight barely favors PSU.  I see them wrestling for 7th/8th and a 7th for Rasheed last year and 2-R12s in a row for Wilcke supports this.-----------Rasheed-nothing really to add.

Pre-Season gap PSU+3   My prediction-PSU +2

 

197:Warner-He wrestled about as much as a redshirt possibly could.  I think that is enough to give him solid pre-season status.  But, R12 points is all that is reasonable.----Nickal is a machine.  I just need to see him handle the physicality of a Conel or Moore, before fully handing over the crown.  Pre-Season gap  PSU+19   My prediction-PSU +6(Warner is a bit more special than Marinelli and I will hold to this like I did Marinelli last year)

 

285:Stoll-Ignoring the fact that he just had hot lead inserted into his knee, he is the pre-season favorite to win it all.  Dhesi, Steveson and even Nevills could easily prove that wrong, but the 1st 2 are not a certainty to wrestle.----------------Nevills-I think Cassar fighting for the weight hurts here.  I saw the same with Rasheed and Cassar.  That battle took something out of Rasheed and he dropped off at NCAA's.  Nevills is still an AA, but I think he ends up middle of the pack.  Pre-Season gap Iowa +5  My prediction- Iowa +5

 

 

Pre-Season they should be about 30 point favorites(I have them at 29).  That is a big gap.  Prediction wise, I have them losing by 5.  This hinges on Lugo distancing himself from Berge and Warner minimizing the gap with Nickal.  They both should benefit from being at the 2 thinnest weights.  Obviously, it now hinges on how Stoll recovers from a unfathomable situation............

 

I don't see Iowa winning, but they definitely have the potential to make PSU have to show up and wrestle to their potential!

 

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs

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By January Penn State will be a 25 point underdog to some other team. They are every other year so I don't see why this year would be any different. Iowa is the new sexy pick to be this year's "team that will beat Penn State". In the end Penn State wins comfortably.

Don’t really recall seeing Penn State a 25 point underdog at any time during this run. Saw many picking Ohio state at points but also acknowledging a very close race.

 

(This is why you can’t be taken seriously)

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PSU is the clear favorite this year and the smart move for them is to throw backups out at 125 and 133 and redshirt their blue chippers at the beginning.

 

Then if a PSU guy goes down with an injury or Iowa and OSU are looking stronger than anticipated, they have the option to pull a shirt here or there.  PSU still has to see if guys like Berge or Rasheed at 184 are AA contenders as well.

 

Iowa is in the hunt for 2nd with OSU with tOSU looking at 4th.

 

OSU is more of a threat to PSU repeating than Iowa at this point but PSU still wins comfortably.

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Don’t really recall seeing Penn State a 25 point underdog at any time during this run. Saw many picking Ohio state at points but also acknowledging a very close race.

 

(This is why you can’t be taken seriously)

 

 

I guarantee you that in Flo's team tournament rankings they have been 25 point dogs to Oklahoma State, and close to that vs. Ohio State. You may not recall seeing those rankings, but they happened and I pointed this out when it happened. This caused everyone to feel the need to explain it all to me, as if I don't understand how they got to the totals they had. 

 

Why don't you just accept that the rankings for tournament scoring did get lopsided at various times the past few years? Denying it happened doesn't make it so. 

Edited by TBar1977

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165:Marinelli-He basically mirrored what I said he would do from the very beginning.  With a year to improve, and hopefully no knee brace, Wick and Joseph are his only true obstacles(unless Massa gets fully healthy and re-invigorated).--------Joseph-What can I say?  He is the most SOLID guy on the PSU roster.  If he sticks to his skillset, he won't light up the scoreboard, but he may never get taken down.  Pre-Season gap- PSU+7  My prediction-PSU +5

 

Would you consider either of the 2 VT guys he lost to in the last few months a true obstacle?

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Like I said I don’t recall seeing it. If it happened one year, okay it happened one year. Two questions I have: Which year was it? Does one year = every year? (as you claimed in the post)

I tried to find prior year tournament rankings on flo just to share them with you, but I did not easily find any archives.

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Like I said I don’t recall seeing it. If it happened one year, okay it happened one year. Two questions I have: Which year was it? Does one year = every year? (as you claimed in the post)

 

 

Flo's drop down menu for ranking weeks no longer works on their website, so you can only access their year end rankings but I will give you the time they had Oklahoma State ahead of Penn State by 25 points in January 2017. You may recall later that year PSU beat them handily and won NCAA's just as handily. 

 

Oklahoma State won the PSUless Southern Scuffle by a record margin that year. PSU wrestled no tournament that holiday season because they got snowed out of RenoTOC. Now I can't post the Flo rankings, but I can post the match notes for the PSU dual weekend following the holiday tournaments. PSU wasn't even ranked 2nd, they were ranked 3rd. You can believe whatever you want, but I made a post here laughing out loud at OSU having that 25 point lead in the tournament rankings.

 

http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/m-wrestl/spec-rel/010317aab.html

 

 

It happened this past season after PSU lost Nolf. No, it doesn't happen each and every year. That is hyperbole, but if it happened the past 2 years that is good enough for me to make use of it as a running joke and for you to find offense to me making it a joke. Everyone gets what they came for. 

Edited by TBar1977

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I tried to find prior year tournament rankings on flo just to share them with you, but I did not easily find any archives.

Yeah I did as well:

2017 1. Penn Sate 2. Ohio State

2016 1. Penn State 2. Ohio State

2015 1. Penn State 2. Oklahoma State

2014 1. Minnesota 2. Ohio State (PSU “redshirt year”)

2013 1. Penn State 2. Iowa

 

You were saying to me something about, why don’t I just accept.....?

 

So if you want any credibility around here, I’ll advise you just accept why nobody takes you seriously, and adjust accordingly. Maybe start by being a little less dramatic and over exaggerating. But then again to each their own, so whatever floats your boat. And to clarify I don’t take offense to anything you say (pretty funny statement coming from you), just trying to help you out with credibility little buddy.

Edited by Lurker

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In part, I agree with Tigsy.  Pre-Season, PSU should be considered a heavy favorite.  Their hammers are too proven to be evenly compared.  Still, the potential, with the way several weights shake out, is why I think Iowa could challenge.

 

125:Lee-Should be good for 25+ and is the one true guy that compares to the PSU "Big 4".--------Teske/Teasdale-Any points here is a bonus, but I just don't see it, I think they both really need a redshirt.

From a preseason standpoint, this is a 25 point gap for Iowa, but could prove to be less if either PSU guy develops.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +25  My prediction-Iowa +25

 

133:DeSanto/Renteria-This weight is so deep that they could finish anywhere from 4-R16.--------RBY-This kid is super talented, but by strict pre-season rulings, you still give a huge gap to the proven guy vs. the true freshman.  Still, I would expect the end result to be within a few points.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa+6  My prediction-Iowa +4

 

141:Murin/Turk-From a preseason perspective, the gap should be a bit wider than DeSanto/RBY.  But, 141 thins out heavily after the top 4, so this gap could end up very similar.----- Lee-This kid truly proved himself, but I think he is still clearly behind Yianni, McKenna and Eierman.  I think he will still be clearly ahead of what Iowa puts out at 141, but the talent drops off quite a bit, with maybe the exception of Brock(if he goes 141).  This makes it very doable for a finish only a spot or 2 behind, even if the talent gap is much wider  Pre-Season gap- PSU +10   My prediction- PSU +5

 

149:Lugo-He has had solid, but nothing special results in the post-season.  He also had a strong redshirt.  Still, pre-season should only get him into 7/8 range.-------Berge-The kid is a talent and I think he challenges for an AA spot.  However, pre-season, you have almost NOTHING to prove he should be, other than the fact he wrestles for PSU.  Pre-Season gap-Iowa +3   My prediction- Iowa +9

 

From here down PSU pulls WAAAAY ahead as a pre-season favorite:

 

157:Young-Iowa fans love the kid, but he hasn't proven anything. Maybe wins a match or 2 at NCAA's.------------Nolf- I truly think he is the best to ever wrestle at PSU.  The kid was so good that he dominated with a bum leg.  With Kemerer vacating, Hidlay is the only guy that may keep him from 100% bonus this season.  Pre-Season gap-PSU +25  My prediction- PSU +25

 

165:Marinelli-He basically mirrored what I said he would do from the very beginning.  With a year to improve, and hopefully no knee brace, Wick and Joseph are his only true obstacles(unless Massa gets fully healthy and re-invigorated).--------Joseph-What can I say?  He is the most SOLID guy on the PSU roster.  If he sticks to his skillset, he won't light up the scoreboard, but he may never get taken down.  Pre-Season gap- PSU+7  My prediction-PSU +5

 

174:Kemerer-This weight hinges a ton on if Valencia stays.  Kemerer is a top 4 guy and stays that way if he moves up.  With Valencia gone, Hall and Amine are the only 2 I see him having trouble with.  I don't think Lewis's skillset matches up with him well.--------Hall is a talent and, if Valencia vacates the scoring gap should widen a bit.  If not, the difference between 2nd and 3rd/4th is minimal.

Pre-Season gap-PSU+4   My prediction-PSU +5(I think Valencia goes up)

 

184:Wilcke-If it is in fact Rasheed here with Nickal moving up, this weight barely favors PSU.  I see them wrestling for 7th/8th and a 7th for Rasheed last year and 2-R12s in a row for Wilcke supports this.-----------Rasheed-nothing really to add.

Pre-Season gap PSU+3   My prediction-PSU +2

 

197:Warner-He wrestled about as much as a redshirt possibly could.  I think that is enough to give him solid pre-season status.  But, R12 points is all that is reasonable.----Nickal is a machine.  I just need to see him handle the physicality of a Conel or Moore, before fully handing over the crown.  Pre-Season gap  PSU+19   My prediction-PSU +6(Warner is a bit more special than Marinelli and I will hold to this like I did Marinelli last year)

 

285:Stoll-Ignoring the fact that he just had hot lead inserted into his knee, he is the pre-season favorite to win it all.  Dhesi, Steveson and even Nevills could easily prove that wrong, but the 1st 2 are not a certainty to wrestle.----------------Nevills-I think Cassar fighting for the weight hurts here.  I saw the same with Rasheed and Cassar.  That battle took something out of Rasheed and he dropped off at NCAA's.  Nevills is still an AA, but I think he ends up middle of the pack.  Pre-Season gap Iowa +5  My prediction- Iowa +5

 

 

Pre-Season they should be about 30 point favorites(I have them at 29).  That is a big gap.  Prediction wise, I have them losing by 5.  This hinges on Lugo distancing himself from Berge and Warner minimizing the gap with Nickal.  They both should benefit from being at the 2 thinnest weights.  Obviously, it now hinges on how Stoll recovers from a unfathomable situation............

 

I don't see Iowa winning, but they definitely have the potential to make PSU have to show up and wrestle to their potential!

Excellent, excellent post.

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I guarantee you that in Flo's team tournament rankings they have been 25 point dogs to Oklahoma State, and close to that vs. Ohio State. You may not recall seeing those rankings, but they happened and I pointed this out when it happened. This caused everyone to feel the need to explain it all to me, as if I don't understand how they got to the totals they had.

 

Why don't you just accept that the rankings for tournament scoring did get lopsided at various times the past few years? Denying it happened doesn't make it so.

Flo is a joke!

 

Their rankings are irrelevant.

 

They do this stuff to generate interest for the casual fan.

 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

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Yeah I did as well:

2017 1. Penn Sate 2. Ohio State

2016 1. Penn State 2. Ohio State

2015 1. Penn State 2. Oklahoma State

2014 1. Minnesota 2. Ohio State (PSU “redshirt year”)

2013 1. Penn State 2. Iowa

 

You were saying to me something about, why don’t I just accept.....?

 

So if you want any credibility around here, I’ll advise you just accept why nobody takes you seriously, and adjust accordingly. Maybe start by being a little less dramatic and over exaggerating. But then again to each their own, so whatever floats your boat. And to clarify I don’t take offense to anything you say (pretty funny statement coming from you), just trying to help you out with credibility little buddy.

 

What did you prove there with those rankings? They look like end of the year rankings, but without a link even that is impossible to know, And any single ranking proves nothing to refute what I said, which is that at some point PSU was a 25 point tournament dog vs. Ok State and Ohio State. Unless you have links to all the rankings for every week you can't refute that.

 

So link please so we can know what dates these rankings are from. I never said PSU was behind by 25 points in every weekly ranking, just that at some point the rankings would be crazy enough to have them that far behind. So you posting those particular rankings doesn't mean anything. Intermat's rankings have Iowa 3rd at year's end, do you think Iowa was ranked 3rd by Intermat every week this past year? Try to keep up, Lurker. 

 

And why don't you ever accept the fact when I repeatedly tell you that I don't give a damn about message board credibility here at themat.com. This msg. board has no credibility, so me trying to get cred on a non cred board means nothing to me. "So if you ever want credibility around here ........", that means nothing. Less than nothing. 

Edited by TBar1977

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