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Flo Announcers

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Don'tcha think viewership would be *even better* in times of 'big boy media'? In other words: No yearlong lock-in, no flaky streaming, no offputting personalities, no Flobros-circlejerk-let's-screenshot-eachother's-tweets-and-post-on-Instagram-rather-than-actually-doing-something-to-grow-the-sport, no 'greatest mind' nonsense, no mocking Tony Rotundo, no calling Jason Bryant irrelevant, no defiance and denial??

 

Billie strives to be Vince McMahon and he sounds a lot like Dana White but he doesn't have the results to back up so much bravado.

 

Flo's been great for Flo. And for wrestling documentaries. No more and no less.

 

Do you think wrestling will have more or less fans in ten years than it does today? 

 

Do you think high school kids today are more or less likely to stay involved as fans of wrestling as adults than HS wrestlers of the 90s?

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From my anecdotal experience, I have seen the success (and expansion) of ESPN's coverage (TV and Streaming) pull people into collegiate wrestling who otherwise would not have been interested.   Conversely, I've seen some of these same people try, and then completely abandon, consuming  International wrestling specifically bc of streaming problems w/ Flo.

 

And I know this is not PC, but during the rare times that international coverage was being delivered reliably (through Flo or other outlets -- eg Olympics), I heard a fair amount of complaining about having to sit through WFS and/or Greco to see the matches they cared about.

 

There is a clear rub.  Any chance of growing the sport would require reliable coverage (TV or Advertisement Based RELIABLE Streaming) and would need to be focused on MFS.  Unfortunately, none of this seems possible given financial obstacles, the IOC and the PC times in which we live.

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the viewers existed. they didn't have a place to view. yes, there are more viewing now than before.

are there more people wanting to view now? people who didn't want to view before?

that is the question.

if not, they are not 'growing' wrestling. only viewership 

 

dont think i dont appreciate what they are doing.

but they are not the answer to GROWING the sport.

 

 

Again differing POV.

Lets apply basic business principles here.

Prior to flo and video streaming wrestling's video coverage was limited to a few outlets.

The Olympics, NCAA Finals, and the occasional local access TV station if your college provided the content.

 

The hardcore fanbase would literally fly to the other side of the universe to view/watch wrestling, however outside of that many wrestling people would "move on" with their lives and start following other professional sports.

If they did continue to follow wrestling it would more so be at the local level with their kids youth club or school programs. They would fall out of touch with what was going on at the collegiate and world level.

 

This means the product life cycle of the wrestling was much smaller. People stopped tuning in after they themselves stopped competing or interacted on a personal level with competitors. Kids who wrestled in high school stopped tuning in once they graduated high school.

Collegiate wrestlers stopped tuning in once they graduated college. Fans now are following the sport longer than they have been in the past due to services like Flo, thus extending the product life cycle for the existing fan base, while every year there's a new generation of fans joining in.

Basic business principles says that retaining a demographic longer than before while adding new ones every year is the definition of growth.

 

That's growth. 

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If you want to introduce "casuals" to wrestling then take them/show them a FOLK match, college or HS. FS is boring for many ex-wrestlers who like mat wrestling, let alone casuals. I tried to watch Olympic wrestling with some casuals a few years ago and it completely bored them, no matter how much I talked up our USA boys. Folk they liked, even though they didn't understand, because it wasn't a couple guys handfighting or jockeying for position the entire match.

 

International FS has been horrible for a long, long time. At least there is more action now than in the ball grab era, but it's still pretty bad.

Edited by TobusRex

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If you want to introduce "casuals" to wrestling then take them/show them a FOLK match, college or HS. FS is boring for many ex-wrestlers who like mat wrestling, let alone casuals. I tried to watch Olympic wrestling with some casuals a few years ago and it completely bored them, no matter how much I talked up our USA boys. Folk they liked, even though they didn't understand, because it wasn't a couple guys handfighting or jockeying for position the entire match.

 

International FS has been horrible for a long, long time. At least there is more action now than in the ball grab era, but it's still pretty bad.

 

I disagree.  I will take MFS over folk any day.  Cannot stand the stalling and out-of-bounds situation in folk.  Plus, the caliber of wrestlers are greater at the International level.  But to each his own. 

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Not have your poster child & huge brand ambassador for the company

Willie is Flo's poster child? I will tell him next time I see him he will be thrilled to learn of this tremendous accomplishment. 

 

jk jk, I honestly wish more people would unfollow Willie rather than read everything he tweets and then complain about it. but to each their own. 

 

thanks to all for the feedback regarding commentary. regarding growing the sport, I don't think some folks realize how few people turn into hardcore fans of sports later in life, like 30+ years old. its practically zero. how many people on this board can even imagine becoming volleyball or rugby fans at anywhere near the level that they currently follow wrestling?

 

so I'm biased but I think Flo has been doing a great job getting the younger people who are already connected to the sport to stay fans as they age into college and beyond. 

 

the stream was definitely an issue and I assure you everyone at the company is very aware. the technicalities are all over my head but it may help to think about it like a package. on the Final X sites we have everything packaged and ready to go. the package is handed off to the delivery company to be delivered to your home. but then the delivery person hits traffic, or are in an accident, or the package gets stolen, or delivered to the wrong address, etc etc. so the solution is to get a more reliable delivery service, maybe even have a helicopter on stand by, maybe use 3 delivery companies so you have redundancy, whatever. there are nearly limitless things that can go wrong and multiple solutions to every problem, all that come with various costs. 

 

does it suck when things don't work? massively so. it's the worst. and everyone at Flo feels the pain, from the content team to the engineers to the senior management. it is getting better, though I understand why folks may feel otherwise.

 

as for contracts - Flo competed with everyone in the industry when USA Wrestling sent out their request for proposals. it's a multi-year deal because no media company is going to invest in a one year contract that big. the bigger the contract, the longer the deals (look at NFL, NBA, MBL deals with ESPN, FOX etc). Will Flo get the contract when it's up again? I sure hope so. in my humble and clearly biased opinion, I don't think anyone blows up wrestling events better. and of course we can still get better at everything we do, including hying events. and if you can find someone doing a better job with wrestling, please let us know so we can learn from them!

 

by the way, NBC and ESPN already have wrestling events worth more than anything Flo has. ESPN has the NCAA National Championships and NBC has all the UWW and Olympic events. those are THE premier events in the wrestling world and Flo has no control over how they are broadcast. meaning Flo is not close to having a monopoly on the sport. if you want more wrestling events on network TV and cable you should talk to them, because only they can make it happen! 

 

anyway, this ended up being a much longer post then I had planned. I just wanted to make fun of Willie for being the 'Flo poster child' haha. he is not by the way, I don't know who it would be but Willie just has the most people listening to him on twitter, which i find bizarre since apparently everyone hates his twitter account. 

 

so keep the feedback coming, thats how we get better. even if it's just to tell us how badly we suck. we read it all! k thanks friends!

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Couldn’t have been turned off by other styles during the Olympics, they are wrestled on different days. You weren’t tuning in to watch Burroughs and had to watch Augello, for instance.

i agree on olympic coverage... tho the only greco matches i ever remember seeing were rulon and maybe a match or two from 1984.

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Willie is Flo's poster child? I will tell him next time I see him he will be thrilled to learn of this tremendous accomplishment. 

 

jk jk, I honestly wish more people would unfollow Willie rather than read everything he tweets and then complain about it. but to each their own. 

 

thanks to all for the feedback regarding commentary. regarding growing the sport, I don't think some folks realize how few people turn into hardcore fans of sports later in life, like 30+ years old. its practically zero. how many people on this board can even imagine becoming volleyball or rugby fans at anywhere near the level that they currently follow wrestling?

 

so I'm biased but I think Flo has been doing a great job getting the younger people who are already connected to the sport to stay fans as they age into college and beyond. 

 

the stream was definitely an issue and I assure you everyone at the company is very aware. the technicalities are all over my head but it may help to think about it like a package. on the Final X sites we have everything packaged and ready to go. the package is handed off to the delivery company to be delivered to your home. but then the delivery person hits traffic, or are in an accident, or the package gets stolen, or delivered to the wrong address, etc etc. so the solution is to get a more reliable delivery service, maybe even have a helicopter on stand by, maybe use 3 delivery companies so you have redundancy, whatever. there are nearly limitless things that can go wrong and multiple solutions to every problem, all that come with various costs. 

 

does it suck when things don't work? massively so. it's the worst. and everyone at Flo feels the pain, from the content team to the engineers to the senior management. it is getting better, though I understand why folks may feel otherwise.

 

as for contracts - Flo competed with everyone in the industry when USA Wrestling sent out their request for proposals. it's a multi-year deal because no media company is going to invest in a one year contract that big. the bigger the contract, the longer the deals (look at NFL, NBA, MBL deals with ESPN, FOX etc). Will Flo get the contract when it's up again? I sure hope so. in my humble and clearly biased opinion, I don't think anyone blows up wrestling events better. and of course we can still get better at everything we do, including hying events. and if you can find someone doing a better job with wrestling, please let us know so we can learn from them!

 

by the way, NBC and ESPN already have wrestling events worth more than anything Flo has. ESPN has the NCAA National Championships and NBC has all the UWW and Olympic events. those are THE premier events in the wrestling world and Flo has no control over how they are broadcast. meaning Flo is not close to having a monopoly on the sport. if you want more wrestling events on network TV and cable you should talk to them, because only they can make it happen! 

 

anyway, this ended up being a much longer post then I had planned. I just wanted to make fun of Willie for being the 'Flo poster child' haha. he is not by the way, I don't know who it would be but Willie just has the most people listening to him on twitter, which i find bizarre since apparently everyone hates his twitter account. 

 

so keep the feedback coming, thats how we get better. even if it's just to tell us how badly we suck. we read it all! k thanks friends!

 

spey, I appreciate the candid response to this hot-button topic here on the forums.  I have a couple thoughts - I'll try to stay inline with the order of your post.

 

with regards to Willie, call it a poster-child, brand ambassador, one of the faces of the company, whatever you'd like - when people see Willie@Flo it is synonymous with FloWrestling/FloSports.  You won't change that unless he leaves and when he runs to twitter hopped up on copenhagen and budweiser, he looks like a fool and in turn makes the COMPANY look foolish.  Turning a blind eye or saying "I wish people would unfollow him" is not a solution or an answer. 

 

Everyone else on twitter seems to keep it to playful banter & good debate.  There's a reason you wake up in the morning and discover Willie has deleted about two hours worth of tweets.

 

completely agree on your point of allowing fans of the sport an easy avenue to continue following the sport, and I think Flo has down an astounding job there.

 

Stream Delivery, I know this isn't really your realm, and you clearly stated that, but what you just did is point the finger at the ISPs, or really anyone other than Flo.  At the end of the day, the responsibility to deliver an efficient and effective product rests on Flo's shoulders.  That starts at the promotion of the event, to choosing the partners you work with to build the backbone of your streaming, to choosing the partners you work with to deliver the product.  The ONLY thing you can't control is end-user ISPs.  This was not an issue of having a couple patched areas of ISP outages, this was a stream/Flo/Partner of Flo issue.  My advice: don't point the finger next time.  Acknowledge the mistake (you did) and tell the customers we will work to deliver a better product next time.  Leave everything else out.

 

Everything else I more or less agree with. 

 

The biggest gripe I have and have always had with Flo is that the company has positioned itself to its customers and to the media as "we're taking on the big boys at ESPN & Fox and challenging the way media is traditionally delivered".  While I will say you have done a fabulous job of bringing more attention to the fringe sports, you all are not even close to touching that level of competition, and shouldn't position yourself as you are if you are clearly still having these sorts of technical issues.

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Again differing POV.

Lets apply basic business principles here.

Prior to flo and video streaming wrestling's video coverage was limited to a few outlets.

The Olympics, NCAA Finals, and the occasional local access TV station if your college provided the content.

 

The hardcore fanbase would literally fly to the other side of the universe to view/watch wrestling, however outside of that many wrestling people would "move on" with their lives and start following other professional sports.

If they did continue to follow wrestling it would more so be at the local level with their kids youth club or school programs. They would fall out of touch with what was going on at the collegiate and world level.

 

This means the product life cycle of the wrestling was much smaller. People stopped tuning in after they themselves stopped competing or interacted on a personal level with competitors. Kids who wrestled in high school stopped tuning in once they graduated high school.

Collegiate wrestlers stopped tuning in once they graduated college. Fans now are following the sport longer than they have been in the past due to services like Flo, thus extending the product life cycle for the existing fan base, while every year there's a new generation of fans joining in.

Basic business principles says that retaining a demographic longer than before while adding new ones every year is the definition of growth.

 

That's growth. 

not my definition of growth.

growth means adding NEW fans, NEW wrestlers, NEW viewers.

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I disagree.  I will take MFS over folk any day.  Cannot stand the stalling and out-of-bounds situation in folk.  Plus, the caliber of wrestlers are greater at the International level.  But to each his own. 

i would say this: dont take them to the NCAA finals.

take them to a match where you KNOW there are some mismatches and you know some scoring will happen.

 

watching david taylor at a PSU dual would have been perfect.  nolf and zain are about the same way.

 

problem, not everyone has guys like this.

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so I'm biased but I think Flo has been doing a great job getting the younger people who are already connected to the sport to stay fans as they age into college and beyond. 

 

 

i agree, this is probably flo's best way to 'grow' the sport.

 

i hear younger wrestlers talking about flo all the time.

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not my definition of growth.

growth means adding NEW fans, NEW wrestlers, NEW viewers.

What if you owned a company that sold a product, and that product was only bought by people under 23, but then, you found a way for people to continue buying it until they were 55...would that be growth? 

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I don’t mind the “informal” announcing but I’ll say I’m embarrassed when my wife listens in. I usually lower the volume rather than explain why someone brought their hips to the party.

Try explaining them arguing which guy has the best hair!

 

..little weird

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Put me in the camp of satisfied with the announcers. All good. I don’t expect buttoned up maturity. I expect some fun and excitement out of Flo team. Youthful energy.

 

All good. Are they perfect? No. But plenty good.

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What if you owned a company that sold a product, and that product was only bought by people under 23, but then, you found a way for people to continue buying it until they were 55...would that be growth? 

i suppose

it's like the iphone

Edited by GockeS

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Stream Delivery, I know this isn't really your realm, and you clearly stated that, but what you just did is point the finger at the ISPs, or really anyone other than Flo.  At the end of the day, the responsibility to deliver an efficient and effective product rests on Flo's shoulders.  That starts at the promotion of the event, to choosing the partners you work with to build the backbone of your streaming, to choosing the partners you work with to deliver the product.  The ONLY thing you can't control is end-user ISPs.  This was not an issue of having a couple patched areas of ISP outages, this was a stream/Flo/Partner of Flo issue.  My advice: don't point the finger next time.  Acknowledge the mistake (you did) and tell the customers we will work to deliver a better product next time.  Leave everything else out.

 

appreciate the thoughtful response. regarding the stream, the more I learn about streaming the more I learn there are numerous intermediaries between the ISP (like google fiber or whoever) and content originator (in this case Flo). so to go back to the delivery analogy, its neither the USPS guy nor Amazon's fault if a package isn't delivered because there was a flash flood in your area and all the roads were closed. 

 

but the analogy isn't all that important. if the cable doesn't work you blame the cable company. if you drop a cell call you blame Verizon. if your Flo stream doesn't work you blame Flo. if someone shows up late to an important appointment, you blame the person, not the excuse. I get that and it's all good! we're always working to deliver our product perfectly, even though we sometimes we don't. just trying to provide some background. for instance, sometimes chrome will work on a stream, other times it won't. sometimes Roku will work and Apple TV doesn't and vice versa. sometimes it's the ISP or one of the many intermediaries. sometimes the quickest solution (in the case of the analogy, to rent a helicopter and pilot to airdrop the package to your rooftop landing deck) isn't feasible. sometimes we should have anticipated a problem we ran into and sometimes its a figurative act of god. 

 

no one is more aware of how important the reliability of the stream is to our customers than the folks behind the scenes. I get that this post is irrelevant to everyone's trust in the stream and their willingness to pay $150/year. not trying to convince anyone, I promise. just letting you all know that we know the deal!

 

regarding Willie - not saying I endorse all of his tweets, but you should meet him. he is very easy to get along with. especially if you love wrestling like he does!

Edited by Jaroslav Hasek

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There are too many instances of Flo’s steam crapping out for this to be an Internet problem. I’m truly not one of the Flo bashers and have repeatedly come on here for over two or three years and claimed that Flo was the best thing to happen to wrestling in the past decade.

 

But the streaming issues are real and specific to Flo because many if not most members don’t experience them with other services at anywhere near the rate as with Flo.

 

Most of the other complaints are just whining but the steaming continues to be Flo’s biggest problem, with customer service a close second.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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not my definition of growth.

growth means adding NEW fans, NEW wrestlers, NEW viewers.

 

New Fans, New Wrestlers, New Viewers every year. They're in the youth.

 

Do you expect New fans that are grown adults to join in?

Do you expect new wrestlers who are grown adults to join in?

 

The growth you speak of happens at the youth level. Wrestling is a long term sport.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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i agree.

to grow the sport we need to get more people wrestling.

if they dont see it on tv, i dont see them starting.

right now it seems to me that most people who start their kids in wrestling are 

a: old wrestlers

b: people who dont have an athletic identity

c: people who want to make their child tougher for a variety of reasons

 

and over my 20 some years of coaching, groups b and c usually didn't stick with it more than a few years

one reason I always thought.. exposure.

when a kid wears an NBA shirt or something like that to practice, you know tv and media exposure is important

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New Fans, New Wrestlers, New Viewers every year. They're in the youth.

 

Do you expect New fans that are grown adults to join in?

Do you expect new wrestlers who are grown adults to join in?

 

The growth you speak of happens at the youth level. Wrestling is a long term sport.

Wrestling is growing because 5-14 year olds are subscribing to Flowrestling, then deciding to wrestle? Flowrestling doesn't do anything to grow wrestling. To borrow a political term, it may solidify some of the base, but that is about it.

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I think that's right, but solidifying the base.... therein lies the rub. Our sport has damn good participation for a fringe sport. It was engagement of the wrestling community that was and continues to be the main problem. I think Flo does a ton to help that problem. I for one, watch 10x more wrestling through Flo than I possibly could without it.

 

That said, those tech problems.... Just brutal. Still worth every penny, but just brutal.

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Wrestling is growing because 5-14 year olds are subscribing to Flowrestling, then deciding to wrestle? Flowrestling doesn't do anything to grow wrestling. To borrow a political term, it may solidify some of the base, but that is about it.

 

Wow. thats certainly a crazy narrative that I did not say at all.

 

Extending ANY product's lifecycle GROWS THAT BUSINESS.

Flo has extended the interest of wrestling for fans that would drop off at younger ages.

 

THATS CALLED GROWING THE BUSINESS.

If you cannot understand that then you clearly have no idea how any business or concept grows and becomes sustainable.

 

Intermat helps grow the sport.

Off The Mat helps grow the sport.

TheMat.com helps grow the sport.

Trackwrestling helps grow the sport.

Flowrestling helps grow the sport.

 

ANYTHING THAT PROMOTES THE SPORT HELPS GROW THE SPORT.

 

You want to think that Flo doesnt grow the sport. That just displays your ignorance on how the world of sports work.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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