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I think it depends on what one thinks is growing the sport. The analogies to business are good but not direct comparison. The sport is not a business. USAW or UWW might be a “business”, but the sport is not.

 

I don’t know if Flo grows the sport or not. I know it makes footage and information more accessible. But I don’t know that there are people more involved with the sport in one way or another than would be if Flo wasn’t around.

 

I have a buddy who never wrestled but got Flo because he was a fan of some HS kids from our state and wanted to follow them. He watches a little senior level stuff to, but he has never went to a match or anything beyond watching something online. Now....that grows flo’s business, but I don’t know that it grows the sport. If he started to get actually involved in some way, I would say that is growing the sport.

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Wow. thats certainly a crazy narrative that I did not say at all.

 

Extending ANY product's lifecycle GROWS THAT BUSINESS.

Flo has extended the interest of wrestling for fans that would drop off at younger ages.

 

THATS CALLED GROWING THE BUSINESS.

If you cannot understand that then you clearly have no idea how any business or concept grows and becomes sustainable.

 

Intermat helps grow the sport.

Off The Mat helps grow the sport.

TheMat.com helps grow the sport.

Trackwrestling helps grow the sport.

Flowrestling helps grow the sport.

 

ANYTHING THAT PROMOTES THE SPORT HELPS GROW THE SPORT.

 

You want to think that Flo doesnt grow the sport. That just displays your ignorance on how the world of sports work.

Now you are changing your argument to that the Flo extends the interest of fans when before you did specifically say, "New Fans, New Wrestlers, New Viewers every year. They're in the youth. .... The growth you speak of happens at the youth level. Wrestling is a long term sport." Flo, along with all of the outlets you mention, essentially promote the sport to itself.

 

In terms of being ignorant on how the world of sports work, I am at least not ignorant enough to believe that streaming feeds that no one that is not already a participant or fan sees, is generating new interest in the sport. Participation numbers certainly haven't been going up. Has attendance and financial support for college programs increased? Has attendance at international events increased? I would sincerely question whether there have been meaningful increases in those areas and as result question the idea that the shelf life of fans is being extended.

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Now you are changing your argument to that the Flo extends the interest of fans when before you did specifically say, "New Fans, New Wrestlers, New Viewers every year. They're in the youth. .... The growth you speak of happens at the youth level. Wrestling is a long term sport." Flo, along with all of the outlets you mention, essentially promote the sport to itself.

 

In terms of being ignorant on how the world of sports work, I am at least not ignorant enough to believe that streaming feeds that no one that is not already a participant or fan sees, is generating new interest in the sport. Participation numbers certainly haven't been going up. Has attendance and financial support for college programs increased? Has attendance at international events increased? I would sincerely question whether there have been meaningful increases in those areas and as result question the idea that the shelf life of fans is being extended.

I think this is a very dour view.  Wish it weren't realistic.

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Couldn’t have been turned off by other styles during the Olympics, they are wrestled on different days. You weren’t tuning in to watch Burroughs and had to watch Augello, for instance.

 

My reference to The Olympics was to just give an example of events that are not streamed live by Flo.  

 

I honestly cannot cite which specific events  that forced people to sit through WFS and/or Greco in order to see all the MFS matched.  I do know (as do you) that this has not been uncommon.

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I think it depends on what one thinks is growing the sport. The analogies to business are good but not direct comparison. The sport is not a business. USAW or UWW might be a “business”, but the sport is not.

I don’t know if Flo grows the sport or not. I know it makes footage and information more accessible. But I don’t know that there are people more involved with the sport in one way or another than would be if Flo wasn’t around.

I have a buddy who never wrestled but got Flo because he was a fan of some HS kids from our state and wanted to follow them. He watches a little senior level stuff to, but he has never went to a match or anything beyond watching something online. Now....that grows flo’s business, but I don’t know that it grows the sport. If he started to get actually involved in some way, I would say that is growing the sport.

The sport itself is not a business, but the sport is fueled by the business that backs it. The two need to work in unison.

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If they feel they’re being forced to watch something, then they need to understand what they’re buying tickets for and what they’re signing up for streams to watch. Schedules clearly outline men and women competing at these events. If a fan feels like they’re subjected to sit through something, that’s on them. You make that choice as a consumer. It’s no surprise men and women’s matches are on a stream or at an event together.

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Now you are changing your argument to that the Flo extends the interest of fans when before you did specifically say, "New Fans, New Wrestlers, New Viewers every year. They're in the youth. .... The growth you speak of happens at the youth level. Wrestling is a long term sport." Flo, along with all of the outlets you mention, essentially promote the sport to itself.

 

In terms of being ignorant on how the world of sports work, I am at least not ignorant enough to believe that streaming feeds that no one that is not already a participant or fan sees, is generating new interest in the sport. Participation numbers certainly haven't been going up. Has attendance and financial support for college programs increased? Has attendance at international events increased? I would sincerely question whether there have been meaningful increases in those areas and as result question the idea that the shelf life of fans is being extended.

Never changed by argument. Look back a read my posts earlier in the thread. Go back to the 80s and 90s. How much viewable content was available to wrestling fan base outside of the Olympics and NCAA Finals? Almost none. Former wrestlers would not continue following the sport after high school or college. More fans are continuing to follow the sport. Here's another analogy for you. People are living longer now than they were in the past. The population as a whole is increasing because more people are being born than are dying.

 

Wrestling fans are leaving the sport as a slower rate than they were back in the 80s and 90s.

 

Furthermore as for the youth. Yes the youth does view flo. More youth kids know who Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder are than kids in the 80s knew who John Smith was. More youth kids are following the sport at the ncaa and international level than they were back in the 80s and 90s.

 

Flo is one of the biggest content providers. Are they actively recruiting kids to wrestle? No, but still they helping grow the sport by retaining fans that otherwise would have left the sport.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I'm sure everyone who was a wrestling fan at one point in their lives was so excited to set their dvrs/vcrs to record the Olympic wrestling matches that were broadcast at 2-4am back during the 2004 Olympics.

 

Flo has made is possible to know what events are happening and get those results in almost real time.

 

But yea, they're not growing the sport. Sarcasm.

Edited by BigTenFanboy

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I think that's right, but solidifying the base.... therein lies the rub. Our sport has damn good participation for a fringe sport. It was engagement of the wrestling community that was and continues to be the main problem. I think Flo does a ton to help that problem. I for one, watch 10x more wrestling through Flo than I possibly could without it.

 

That said, those tech problems.... Just brutal. Still worth every penny, but just brutal.

I agree, but I didn't subscribe to Flo until right before the second final x at PSU.

I have been a wrestler/fan for 30 some years

I got my info elsewhere.

including twitter

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If they feel they’re being forced to watch something, then they need to understand what they’re buying tickets for and what they’re signing up for streams to watch. Schedules clearly outline men and women competing at these events. If a fan feels like they’re subjected to sit through something, that’s on them. You make that choice as a consumer. It’s no surprise men and women’s matches are on a stream or at an event together.

I agree.

the question is: will people NOT GO... or not buy streams... b/c of that...

 

I have no idea.

I like to watch them all. It wouldn't bother me. But at some point 8 hours in a gym watching people I dont know...

 

thats why i really like the 3 site final x.

I got to see the 3 or 4 i was interested in AND got to see a few who i didn't know about... small doses are doable.

Edited by GockeS

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i agree, this is probably flo's best way to 'grow' the sport.

 

i hear younger wrestlers talking about flo all the time.

Gets those younger kids that are "already wrestling" excited about the sport beyond their own competition. Those same younger wrestlers have friends that they encourage and invite to wrestle. That's another way that Flo helps grow the sport.

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Gets those younger kids that are "already wrestling" excited about the sport beyond their own competition. Those same younger wrestlers have friends that they encourage and invite to wrestle. That's another way that Flo helps grow the sport.

if those younger kids ARE getting other kids to wrestle... b/c of the excitement from Flo... and having those kids watch flo...then yes

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The sport itself is not a business, but the sport is fueled by the business that backs it. The two need to work in unison.

They most certainly are working in unison. It’s whether or not Flo is effectively “growing” the sport that was the original question. In my opinion that is answered by are more people involved in the sport because of the work Flo is doing, that otherwise wouldn’t be. To me that is growing the sport. I’m not saying they are or are not, just saying providing more access to people already in, without expanding the base, is not.

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If they feel they’re being forced to watch something, then they need to understand what they’re buying tickets for and what they’re signing up for streams to watch. Schedules clearly outline men and women competing at these events. If a fan feels like they’re subjected to sit through something, that’s on them. You make that choice as a consumer. It’s no surprise men and women’s matches are on a stream or at an event together.

I didn’t say they were surprised by it. They still despised having to sit through it though. And it affected their inclination to ever do it again.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I didn’t say they were surprised by it. They still despised having to sit through it though. And it affected their inclination to ever do it again.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think a number of viewers were pleasantly surprised by the womens wrestling that was displayed at Final X. I also dont think that Womens wrestling at Final X is going to cause wrestling fans to stop watching events. In the long run I think it'll help expand the market.

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I think it depends on what one thinks is growing the sport. The analogies to business are good but not direct comparison. The sport is not a business. USAW or UWW might be a “business”, but the sport is not.

 

I don’t know if Flo grows the sport or not. I know it makes footage and information more accessible. But I don’t know that there are people more involved with the sport in one way or another than would be if Flo wasn’t around.

 

I have a buddy who never wrestled but got Flo because he was a fan of some HS kids from our state and wanted to follow them. He watches a little senior level stuff to, but he has never went to a match or anything beyond watching something online. Now....that grows flo’s business, but I don’t know that it grows the sport. If he started to get actually involved in some way, I would say that is growing the sport.

 

 

This fan will eventually get several kids to wrestle or stick with wrestling by positively talking about wrestling to people who do wrestle which will make it more likely for them to continue wrestling and by positively talking about wrestling to current and future parents to make it more likely that their kid attempts wrestling.

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I'm sure everyone who was a wrestling fan at one point in their lives was so excited to set their dvrs/vcrs to record the Olympic wrestling matches that were broadcast at 2-4am back during the 2004 Olympics.

 

Flo has made is possible to know what events are happening and get those results in almost real time.

 

But yea, they're not growing the sport. Sarcasm.

 

I would also like to add that the NBA doesn't promote basketball. All their players learned to play basketball before getting into the NBA. Get back to me when the NBA actually goes into an elementary school and puts on a little clinic to promote the sport. 

 

Flowrestling doesn't physically interact with people outside of the internet, therefore they don't affect people. 

 

Facebook doesn't produce a product, so there is no way they create a profit. 

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Flowrestling doesn't physically interact with people outside of the internet, therefore they don't affect people. 

 

Facebook doesn't produce a product, so there is no way they create a profit. 

I just spent the last 3 weeks on the road physically interacting with quite a few people. although perhaps I imagined it? perhaps we are all living in the matrix?

 

and maybe Facebook has been lying to the SEC about all the money they've been making over the last 10 years? boy wouldn't that be something! here is their latest 10K, which I guess is fraudulent?

http://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001326801/c826def3-c1dc-47b9-99d9-76c89d6f8e6d.pdf

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I just spent the last 3 weeks on the road physically interacting with quite a few people. although perhaps I imagined it? perhaps we are all living in the matrix?

 

and maybe Facebook has been lying to the SEC about all the money they've been making over the last 10 years? boy wouldn't that be something! here is their latest 10K, which I guess is fraudulent?

http://d18rn0p25nwr6d.cloudfront.net/CIK-0001326801/c826def3-c1dc-47b9-99d9-76c89d6f8e6d.pdf

 

I trying out the absurd to see how it looked. I respect what you do and enjoy your content daily. 

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This fan will eventually get several kids to wrestle or stick with wrestling by positively talking about wrestling to people who do wrestle which will make it more likely for them to continue wrestling and by positively talking about wrestling to current and future parents to make it more likely that their kid attempts wrestling.

That’s what we’re hoping for.

Edited by Lurker

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Never changed by argument. Look back a read my posts earlier in the thread. Go back to the 80s and 90s. How much viewable content was available to wrestling fan base outside of the Olympics and NCAA Finals? Almost none. Former wrestlers would not continue following the sport after high school or college. More fans are continuing to follow the sport. Here's another analogy for you. People are living longer now than they were in the past. The population as a whole is increasing because more people are being born than are dying.

 

Wrestling fans are leaving the sport as a slower rate than they were back in the 80s and 90s.

 

Furthermore as for the youth. Yes the youth does view flo. More youth kids know who Jordan Burroughs and Kyle Snyder are than kids in the 80s knew who John Smith was. More youth kids are following the sport at the ncaa and international level than they were back in the 80s and 90s.

 

Flo is one of the biggest content providers. Are they actively recruiting kids to wrestle? No, but still they helping grow the sport by retaining fans that otherwise would have left the sport.

I agree that more content is available. However, you don't have any data to support any of your claims such as that more fans are continuing to follow the sport and wrestling fans are leaving the sport at a slower rate.

 

I would also like to add that the NBA doesn't promote basketball. All their players learned to play basketball before getting into the NBA. Get back to me when the NBA actually goes into an elementary school and puts on a little clinic to promote the sport. 

 

Flowrestling doesn't physically interact with people outside of the internet, therefore they don't affect people. 

 

Facebook doesn't produce a product, so there is no way they create a profit. 

The NBA doesn't promote basketball? The NBA is constantly promoting their product both domestically and internationally.

Edited by Missourimatman

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I agree that more content is available. However, you don't have any data to support any of your claims such as that more fans are continuing to follow the sport and wrestling fans are leaving the sport at a slower rate.

 

The NBA doesn't promote basketball? The NBA is constantly promoting their product both domestically and internationally.

 

Just as much data that the fans who claim that flo ISNT growing the sport.

 

Flo doesn't promote wrestling? Flo is constantly promoting their product both domestically and internationally.

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Just as much data that the fans who claim that flo ISNT growing the sport.

 

Flo doesn't promote wrestling? Flo is constantly promoting their product both domestically and internationally.

I don't think they are growing the "sport" either, especially if we are talking about # fans and participants. I also don't think it is their responsibility to do so. My opinion is, at times, they are a nice convienience for me, but I would not be any less of a fan If they disapeared. The benefit I see in them is with the wrestlers being able to study other techniques and scout other competitors. So in that aspect I guess the videos may be "improving" the quality of competition. I don't rely on them anymore for real time streaming but do enjoy watching results when they are posted.

 

As far as announcers...bring back Joeflo

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