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Our Men’s FS world team

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I love watching Taylor and have been a fan since his freshman year.  I have been rooting for him from the beginning....  but

 

Dake, Steiber, Cox, and Snyder all have more NCAA title than Taylor. 

Gwiz and Burroughs have the same number of NCAA titles as Taylor. 

Gwiz, Gilman and Steiber all have world medals

Green and Cox have multiple world medals.

Burroughs and Snyder have multiple gold medals.  

Taylor has also lost to Burroughs, Dake, and Cox multiple times

 

So while I respect everyones opinion, I am not sure the logic behind Taylor coming away with potential gold only to be accompanied by JB and with the exception of Snyder everyone else is Bronze or no medal.  Personally, in the spirit of giving Taylor credit where credit is due, I think he is probably the key to bringing home the team gold again this year. 

 

JB, Snyder, Dake, and Cox I think are our very likely medalists with Green maybe just behind them. One more medal and I think we lock in the team title.  I think Taylor is the key to that. Gwiz is right there with Taylor but when you have 2 other opponents who have separated themselves in the case of 125KG, it leave very little if any room for error.  

 

 

Team wise, I don't think AZE finishes top 4.  Russia, Iran, USA, and Cuba should land top 4.

 

I am really interested to see what happens with Russia.  While they have always been a wrestling power, as a country they seem to be struggling in about every sport compared to the past since they have been cracked down on for doping.  I am curious to see how this impacts even their elite wrestlers.  Even some of their best wrestlers may not have been nailed for PEDS, it makes me question how it affects their depth, and their ability to reload year after year.   It also makes me wonder if some of their elite wrestlers in the past, even recent past, may have not been clean at one time, but are now and is impacted by it.  I am sure this would all be kept pretty hush by Russia, and has that been the reason they have gone with some wrestlers over others.  Are some of the wrestlers that have kept out or replaced in some tournaments because they will come pop up in the testing?  I am not saying I think that is what has happened, but those are variables I do wonder about.  So I will be curious to see if Russia is the same Russia we are use to seeing.

 

I hope the 4 months comes quick!

It's almost as if people are using Taylor's results against top international competition to make predictions about how he is going to do against top international competition. Insane!

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Even if you believe that there isn't "much of a difference" between a bracket full of NCAA qualifiers and a bracket full of senior-level national champions, how do you get around the fact that the world championships draw on a much larger pool of competitors?

 

Also, I didn't say Dake was ranked #1 in the world.  All I meant to say is he's never done anything to be considered #1 in the world.

Looking back, I do agree with your general point.  I just don't think that age and the level of commitment (time or energy) are key determinants of the lack of success on the world stage.  When our college guys enter the senior circuit, they are similar in age to the average world medalist.  And, from what I've gathered, it seems the post-grad work-life balance makes it difficult for many athletes to devote sufficient time to training.  This is supported by the fact that the majority of our (first time) medalists over the past few cycles, came soon after or during their college careers.  Aside from Henry Cejudo and maybe a few others, it is almost always the case that our world team consists of NCAA superstars.  But again, I don't think the two map together one-to-one which is why I think exceeding 5 medals will be extremely difficult.  

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The rankings are totally insane. I just looked at the UWW site and they had Kyle Snyder ranked #18, and Gadsen was ranked #5! Taylor was ranked #2, and Gwiz, shockingly, #1. Somehow Steiber was #6.

 

I should have specified, these are Flo's rankings, which I actually think are pretty solid and well-reasoned.  Seth knows as much about international comp. as anyone. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031553-international-rankings-mens-freestyle/28292-takahashi-stays-up-top

 

That said, if you just look at the names you can easily see the team title people here is going to be much harder fought, and will probably come down to draws and/or injuries

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My predictions:

 

57k Thomas Gilman : no medal

61k Nahshon Garrett : no medal

65k Logan Steiber : no medal

70k James Green : bronze

74k Jordan Burroughs : gold

79k Kyle Dake : bronze

86k David Taylor : silver/gold

92k J'Den Cox : no medal

97k Kyle Snyder : silver

125k Nick Gwizdowski: bronze

 

Its a great team, but won't beat Russia for team title, too weak at the lower weights. It will be a toss up between U.S. and AZE for 2nd.

 

I'd love for Taylor to win gold but I am not sure he beats Yazdani or Geduev.

 

I am most curious how Taylor does, IMO, he may be currently the best wrestler in the world and he may prove that at the worlds.

So Snyder will get shut out by Sadilaev, and the US CANT beat Russia.

 

What were last years results again?

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Doubleleg, I respectfully disagree and think top 4 will be USA Russia Georgia and Japan somewhere in that order.

Ohio, 

 

I don't necessarily disagree.  Particularly with Japan.  I have them 5th, but was on the fence with them being top 4 and Cuba being just outside of Top 4.  I also think Georgia is solid so them busting the top 4 wouldn't surprise me.  I would be surprised though if Iran is not in that top 4 mix, but then again, it is the world championships. 

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For me personally, I am not really considering NCAA performances.   Green never even won an NCAA title.  For me personally, I am considering patterns and consistently.  

 

I truly believe that if you took draws out (in a hypothetical), and could hypothetically wrestle everyone in an order to where everyone wrestled everyone (not possible), that all 10 of our guys would land top 10 in the world.  You can't account for one country (including the USA) having 2 or more top 10 guys in a weight.  Each country can only wrestle one of them.  So it doesn't matter if Russia has a number 1,2, and 3 in a weight.  Only one wrestles the tournament.  So in the tournament.  The #4 guys theoretically is the silver competitor.  So with that said.  If you consider draws then you look at the bell curve.  3 of our guys will get close to a perfectly average draw, one guy will get a great draw, one guy will get a terrible draw and someone.  Of the other five wrestler, 2 or 3 will get a little better than a perfectly average draw and 2 or 3 will get a less than perfectly average draw.  Therefore, with all ten of our guys being a top 10 (IMO), 5 of them have a very realistic shot at medaling.  When I consider that I think 7 of them are a legit top 5 contender I am putting my bet on us pulling of at least 6 medals.  

 

As for my opinions on Taylor, I would place a bet on him medaling and feel confident in that bet.  However, from my perspective when he is grouped with Green, Burroughs, Dake, Cox, and Snyder, he is the one who has had a momentary lapse that cost him a match.  I will admit, I am one of the guys who thought he would beat Dake every time they wrestled.  I thought, this has to be his one.  Even noted it on forums.  He never did.  I predicted him to beat Cox, both times.  He never did.  I thought he would finally pick off Burroughs.... and he never did.  So while I still think his is as elite as all the above mentioned, he seems to be the one who misses by an inch IF compared to the other.  I in no way mean that as a knock.  I will jump up and scream "F' Yes!" in my living room when he medals.  Taylor deserves his world medal.  

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Dake is obviously a very good wrestler, but he's never before won a tournament over multiple world-elite wrestlers. He took 5th at the 2013 Golden Grand Prix and 2nd at the 2018 Yarygin. Until he actually wins a truly elite tournament, I have a hard time picking him to be a world gold medalist.

 

I think some fans put too much stock in NCAA accomplishments. The truth is that the world tournament is a completely different level.

 

I'm not really sure what you're getting at.  I don't think anyone considers Dake the favorite to win gold, just that he has a shot.  As to putting too much stock into NCAA accomplishments... we're long past that point with Dake.  He's only lost 1 match at 79kg and he's wrestled some strong competition, not to mention 79kg is a bit weak relative to some of the other weights.  You've got Gadzhimagomedov sitting atop the heap, a handful of other young talented Russians that won't play a factor, and then a group of guys that Dake should be favored over, some of which he's already beaten. 

 

I'm not too worried about Kurbanov, Hasanov, Shabanov, Akbari, Obst... I don't really see those guys beating Dake.  On the right day all of them could, of course, but he's rightfully favored in each of those matchups. 

Edited by steamboat_charlie

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I humbly respect your knowledge of the greatest wrestlers in the world.  It carries a lot of weight to me, that you believe in the dream for Mr Dake.  I can't wait!  I've dodged joining Flo up until now.  I hope we have even better cable coverage than last year.  

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This may not be the time or the place for this discussion, but we should absolutely allow multiple entries from each country into the World Championship.

 

Two per weight per Nation and a true Double Elimination tournament. A lot more emphasis on placings and rankings worldwide and give more wrestlers a chance to shine on the world stage.

 

One and done is asinine.

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I should have specified, these are Flo's rankings, which I actually think are pretty solid and well-reasoned.  Seth knows as much about international comp. as anyone. 

https://www.flowrestling.org/rankings/6031553-international-rankings-mens-freestyle/28292-takahashi-stays-up-top

 

That said, if you just look at the names you can easily see the team title people here is going to be much harder fought, and will probably come down to draws and/or injuries

 

Much better. Thanks for the link.

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Two per weight per Nation and a true Double Elimination tournament. A lot more emphasis on placings and rankings worldwide and give more wrestlers a chance to shine on the world stage.

 

One and done is asinine.

 

YES.  The Olympics can do whatever they want, but for our Championships we should be have the tournament which we deserve!

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I don’t line the idea of multiple entries from one country. And for me it’s all about the athlete. To be THE ONE to represent your country at the world championships. That’s something to be honored and cherished and allowing multiple entries would take away from that.

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No Zain this year hurts but we could see Lee, Zain and maybe a Nolf or Joseph down the road.

 

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Zain, yup. Nolf - maybe, can see it. Joseph — mmmmm. Lee - ? Huh?

 

On the idea of multiple entries - I’m kinda in lurker’s camp. 1 per country. Feel free to host other tournaments with multiple entries (Yarigan). I like the 1 guy per country angle.

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Love all the discussion but it's a little early for me.  History tells us some will rise to exceed expectations, some will fall far short of their perceived potential, throw in an injury or two, some BS calls, brutal draws, etc.  That said, I can't wait!

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Love all the discussion but it's a little early for me.  History tells us some will rise to exceed expectations, some will fall far short of their perceived potential, throw in an injury or two, some BS calls, brutal draws, etc.  That said, I can't wait!

Yeah Coach, plus they pushed Worlds back to October this year.

 

Well, since we're here, MFS is up first on Oct 20 with 61, 74, 86 and 125 wrestling on Saturday and Sunday; 57, 65, 79, and 92 going Sunday and Monday; 70 and 97 wrestling on Monday and Tuesday.

Edited by 2td3nf

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