Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Tofurky

Too Many D1 Programs?

Recommended Posts

Are there too many D1 programs out there to support the talent that Division 1 athletics is supposed to attract? Would the wrestling community be better off limiting the number of Division 1 programs to, say, 40 in order to keep the best talent there, so then as to focus on growth in D2, D3, NAIA, but that aren't going to be in the running for the likes of the kids in the Intermat/Mat Talk/Flo rankings? Without me citing names, we all know to which programs I am referring. 

 

From a fan perspective, there seems to be very little support for teams who "don't produce" on a regular basis Is it time to significantly "thin the herd," so to speak and let "the cream rise to the top," to quote a well known coach?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I'd rather see more wrestlers break out of the mother hive mentality and go train or coach at other programs after they graduate. It's too bad the RTCs dodn't have some sort of wrestling draft as I think it would be good for the overall level of FS/GR wrestling but also trickle down and improve folkstyle at the programs outside of the "big 5" or whatever it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there too many D1 programs out there to support the talent that Division 1 athletics is supposed to attract? Would the wrestling community be better off limiting the number of Division 1 programs to, say, 40

The wrestling community is fighting to keep the 70+ D1 Programs we have and you are proposing we cut that in half ? I honestlydon't understand the logic in this ?

 

I would much rather get back to 100 D1 Programs as opposed to 40.

 

Your wishes may come true in 20 years or so when the BIG Tournament is essentially the NCAA Tournament. I can't fathom how that will be as good as what we currently have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If less than half of all teams that have reps at Nationals--and that is not all 76-odd teams every year that do qualify someone--are remotely competitive, what's the point in keeping the consistent cellar dwellers around?

 

Why would fans want to increase the number of D1 programs if more than half of teams each tournament can't score double digit team points and a quarter of teams or more are scoring five points or less each year?

 

Also, if fans already don't follow the teams that are currently in the bottom 60% of teams annually, why add more teams that will not be competitive?

 

Why not reduce the amount of Division 1 teams to concentrate the top talent, get rid of the coaches who aren't producing at that level and make for a truly competitive division instead of pretending that any of us really give a $#!* about those teams that are never in contention for anything but who can score the least amount of points?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the worst take since the clown who thought a young coach who was moving to an area where he had no connection might not work out...

 

For those wondering, that clown was some Britt Malinsky character. (that coach was Cael Sanderson, and the area was Centre County, Pennsylvania)

Edited by SetonHallPirate

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If less than half of all teams that have reps at Nationals--and that is not all 76-odd teams every year that do qualify someone--are remotely competitive, what's the point in keeping the consistent cellar dwellers around?

 

Why would fans want to increase the number of D1 programs if more than half of teams each tournament can't score double digit team points and a quarter of teams or more are scoring five points or less each year?

 

Also, if fans already don't follow the teams that are currently in the bottom 60% of teams annually, why add more teams that will not be competitive?

 

Why not reduce the amount of Division 1 teams to concentrate the top talent, get rid of the coaches who aren't producing at that level and make for a truly competitive division instead of pretending that any of us really give a $#!* about those teams that are never in contention for anything but who can score the least amount of points?

Why are 330 basketball schools D1 when 200+ don't have a chance?

 

Why are 110 football schools 1A?  Why do 196 schools have division 1 swimming?  You could ask about literally every D1 sport.

 

If the point of your question is why compete if you can't win the championship, then why stop at 40?  Why have just D2 and 3?  Why not D4 and D5 so every team can compete for a title? 

 

Instead why not just put the 70 teams in 8-10 team divisions of similar teams who can compete for titles against each other.  They could maybe even compete with each other during the regular season.  Then after that is all over they could all come together and still have a 'National' Tournament.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

just imagine what it would be like if there were more than 9.9 schollies.

 

I still find it incomprehensible that the NCAA can somehow justify giving football 85 full-ride scholies, but only allows 9.9 for wrestling.  Hell, even basketball gets 13.

Edited by KCMO2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High school wrestlers, statistically speaking, are already the least likely of all high school athletes to compete at the DI level and you want to make it even more difficult for kids to compete at the next level. Sad.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there too many D1 programs out there to support the talent that Division 1 athletics is supposed to attract? Would the wrestling community be better off limiting the number of Division 1 programs to, say, 40 in order to keep the best talent there, so then as to focus on growth in D2, D3, NAIA, but that aren't going to be in the running for the likes of the kids in the Intermat/Mat Talk/Flo rankings? Without me citing names, we all know to which programs I am referring. 

 

From a fan perspective, there seems to be very little support for teams who "don't produce" on a regular basis Is it time to significantly "thin the herd," so to speak and let "the cream rise to the top," to quote a well known coach?

Maybe what we could start doing and what we should start doing is valuing events in wrestling beyond the NCAA championships. We get damn near a half a year of quality wrestling from tournaments starting in mid November and going all the way till the end of March. I find it pathetic and ridiculous that in five months of wrestling, the only thing that seems to matter to us are three days in March.  It's disheartening to know that mentality is preached, encouraged and celebrated and anyone with a different perspective is seen as "weak" or in the least absurd. 

 

Cliff Keen, Midlands, Reno, Southern Scuffle,we have four major in season tournaments. We have a ton of great duals.  

 

IF we valued any of this 1/10th as much as we value the NCAA tournament, our sport would be more popular.  We'd have a bigger fan base.   

 

Basketball obviously values more than the NCAA tournament. If it didn't, we wouldn't have the NIT.  Wrestling is way too proud and way too full of itself to even joke about such a thing for its sport. It's hard sometimes to get someone to value second place, let alone something of that nature. 

 

Football values every single game. 

 

Chalk this up as another unpopular JT#1 opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still find it incomprehensible that the NCAA can somehow justify giving football 85 full-ride scholies, but only allows 9.9 for wrestling.  Hell, even basketball gets 13.

i agree, but it might be a blessing in disguise.

 

true story, back in the day at nebraska, two FORMER managers were on scholly for womens bball (so they could fulfill their full complement of schollies).

tolly thompson NATIONAL CHAMP...partial

 

how ever, if there were more schollies, how much talent could a PSU, Iowa, Ohio St. stockpile... leaving less and less for the rest...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe what we could start doing and what we should start doing is valuing events in wrestling beyond the NCAA championships. We get damn near a half a year of quality wrestling from tournaments starting in mid November and going all the way till the end of March. I find it pathetic and ridiculous that in five months of wrestling, the only thing that seems to matter to us are three days in March.  It's disheartening to know that mentality is preached, encouraged and celebrated and anyone with a different perspective is seen as "weak" or in the least absurd. 

 

Cliff Keen, Midlands, Reno, Southern Scuffle,we have four major in season tournaments. We have a ton of great duals.  

 

IF we valued any of this 1/10th as much as we value the NCAA tournament, our sport would be more popular.  We'd have a bigger fan base.   

 

Basketball obviously values more than the NCAA tournament. If it didn't, we wouldn't have the NIT.  Wrestling is way too proud and way too full of itself to even joke about such a thing for its sport. It's hard sometimes to get someone to value second place, let alone something of that nature. 

 

Football values every single game. 

 

Chalk this up as another unpopular JT#1 opinion. 

i like this take. but on the same level. I only watch the CWS, NCAA bball tournament...sometimes, world series

I dont watch much reg season stuff.

football and wrestling, i watch as much as i can. but there isn't much wrestling on. BiG network doesn't even cover as much as they used to. as i feared, they have begun to show much more bball and fball 

I go to as many home husker events as possible... but during high school season that can be hard.(its an hour drive and then thats after practice, and many times on a school night. on saturdays...well i just spent my day at a hs tourney)

 

but why dont we have an NIT in wrestling. that would be kind of cool. or even have a redshirt national tourney.

 

i disagree about the tourneys during the season that you speak of.  I really dont think there are very many.

 

many people on the International forum were complaining about having 3 sites and so not everyone is there.  wrestling season shuts down in jan and feb during the DUAL season.  only the top squads draw. if there were more tourney's, there would be more top wrestlers in one location and potentially draw more fans...

this might also get more unknown wrestlers some exposure and help bring up the level of those wrestlers...

Edited by GockeS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is the worst take since the clown who thought a young coach who was moving to an area where he had no connection might not work out...

 

For those wondering, that clown was some Britt Malinsky character. (that coach was Cael Sanderson, and the area was Centre County, Pennsylvania)

Yeah.  That guy is real piece of work.  :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We need every State that has High School Wrestling to host a D1 pogram at their top State University.

Not doing so tells these young athletes they are not welcome and not wanted.

 

It is open discrimination against them and their sport - whether male or female wrestlers.

 

We need more D1 programs. At the very least the number active in the late 1960's would be a good start.

 

While we are at it, over the past 9 years we have had more wrestling teams win D1 Titles than in the entire history of NCAA D1 football. In reality we need more programs even if many will never win it all. Individual sport needs top competition and giving the athletes choices in schooling only helps.

Edited by WillieBoy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I still find it incomprehensible that the NCAA can somehow justify giving football 85 full-ride scholies, but only allows 9.9 for wrestling.  Hell, even basketball gets 13.

Sure, have the NCAA allow more scholarships, that will work.  LHU would have to fund raise even more money annually.

 

You would see 10 programs dropped overnight.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure, have the NCAA allow more scholarships, that will work.  LHU would have to fund raise even more money annually.

 

You would see 10 programs dropped overnight.

 

No offense, but that's a stupid response.  Just because that many scholarships are permissible does not mean that they have to be funded.  Increasing the number of permissible scholarships would not result in schools dropping the sport.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

High school wrestlers, statistically speaking, are already the least likely of all high school athletes to compete at the DI level and you want to make it even more difficult for kids to compete at the next level. Sad.

 

Is Division 1 the ONLY option in your mind? If you go back and read the original post, and not take the title at face value, you'll see I said, in the second sentence, no less, "Would the wrestling community be better off limiting the number of Division 1 programs to, say, 40 in order to keep the best talent there, so then as to focus on growth in D2, D3, NAIA (you can throw in NJCAA and maybe even develop RTC-type programs at institutions without an NCAA, NAIA or NJCAA program, as an addendum), but that aren't going to be in the running for the likes of the kids in the Intermat/Mat Talk/Flo rankings?" Right there, I gave a far more reasonable and cost effective solution for 98-99% of high school wrestlers out there to continue competing after high school.

 

https://www.flowrestling.org/articles/5067286-you-do-the-math-high-school-participation-numbers - the numbers of high school wrestlers are shrinking. Of the 250,653 high school wrestlers in 2015-16, how many were girls who will not be competing for any men's programs in college? Take that number out and the number continues to drop. Then, how many of the remaining kids were high school seniors? My assumption is that the largest numbers you'll find are at the freshman level, where kids are trying the sport for the first time. Most won't stick with it, but they are among those numbers. Of those seniors, how many of them are "Division 1 athletes" who will ever be starters for the teams for which they intend to compete?

 

Why would we push for more Division 1 opportunities, so wrestling can make an effort keep up with football and basketball to make the fan base feel better about where the sport stands in the landscape of collegiate athletics? So dad (and maybe mom) can boast to their friends that their kid is on X Division 1 team? So we can kid ourselves into further believing that wrestling is more important to American culture than it really is?

 

American society has spoken... for the last 30-some-odd years. The numbers are not in our favor. Public perception is that wrestling is seen as little more than breeding ground for mixed martial arts and, to a far lesser extent, a core Olympic sport that people think happens once every four years. We, as a community, need to be more honest with ourselves about this and figure out how to adjust for the benefit of those involved with this sport we all enjoy. Part of this means growing programs at levels which are not D1 (because it costs a hell of a lot less and the interest is there) and to stop kidding ourselves that every kid out there is worthy of D1 designation, leading high school coaches, club coaches, dads, moms, grandparents, siblings and everyone in town that there just isn't enough access. There IS enough access at the D1 level, but the level of talent isn't there to support all those programs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...