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Angry_Fish

Grand Prix of Spain and Dogu

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People are getting too down on Snyder and JB. They both "lost" on an equal score, matches they could have won. IMO, JB will beat Chamizo at worlds. Chamizo is way too wild. 

STOP IT, its the one thing I cant stand, and I wish was banned.

CHAMIZO iS TOO WILD IS HE SO INCONSISTENT.... he freaking wins everything.

look how different the matches were, BTS vs here, 2 pts and a tie... yall act like he gets a tech one day and gets teched the next.

STOPPPPPPP WITH THE CHAMIZO DOESNT HAVE CONSISTENT RESULTS ARGUMENTS ITS LITERALLY RIDICULOUS!

WELL HE HAS MEDALED BUT NOT ALWAYS GOLD, SHOWS HOW WILD HE IS!!!

Go stick your head in a blender, he is always near the top, and I hate you all

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spladle08, chill down  dude :)

 

Look at his Euro's 2018 match where he again got wild and lost to the Turk I believe. He also had a lot of trouble with Ramonov. I don't think he beats JB when it counts, JB is way too experienced and calculated to allow a 2nd match like this.

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Everyone is throwing the corner under the bus for the challenge. A challenge is ultimately up to the athlete, which is why when the brick is thrown the official goes to the athlete to confirm they want to challenge. In this case, JB called for it.

 

Agreed.  They athlete has all the say here.      Burroughs wanted it and he got it.   

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spladle08, chill down  dude :)

 

Look at his Euro's 2018 match where he again got wild and lost to the Turk I believe. He also had a lot of trouble with Ramonov. I don't think he beats JB when it counts, JB is way too experienced and calculated to allow a 2nd match like this.

Because he lost a close match to the stalling Demitras at 2018 Euros when he thought he could run out the time, and he struggles with the all time great Soslan Ramonov, he is inconsistent

C'mon man.

We will see come worlds, but it's going to be close, its a literal coin-flip

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True. Ask Varner about Taylor. He has beaten Varner at times and only because of size does Varner or Cael beat him. Taylor has past them both on skill. The only thing missing is that World title. Taylor is going to work Yazdani. His only weakness is getting caught by a big muscle freak-Yazdani is not that guy! Taylor is on the weaker side of things and I think some of the Cuban muscle freaks are the only guys who could get him.   

 

It's going to be difficult for some on this board to admit Taylor is wrestling better than Burroughs.  Or for Dake to be wrestling better.    That attacks all they've been opposed to all along.    There's no shame in it, Jordan is no longer at his best.  He's declined.   Taylor and Dake, they've both improved tremendously.    The second part there a great thing.  The first part a thing no one can escape.  As for Snyder, he always drops bouts during the season and this time during the college season too.   He's not wrestling his best.   He isn't in top form.  That's just reality.   To insist otherwise and in some cases to call names over it, well that's to be expected from some on this board.   As a fan of Team USA, I hope Burroughs and Snyder both get up to the level where Taylor and Dake are wrestling at right now and that's lights out, world level, elite.          

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Yes, I believe this scheduling is exactly what we needed.  A gritty performance so far, to say the least.  Gilly looked tough as nails, Dake and Taylor steal the show with just amazing performances.  I'm literally counting the days until The Championships.

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Two thoughts, both of which draw from experience:

 

In the first period, there are VERY few situations where you should challenge a sequence where you come out with the advantage in points. Nominal scoring actions should be off limits as well. (think opposite color 4s). Even if you are 100% correct, this does not guarantee the jury will see things your way. While a point for a failed challenge can be overcome, not holding the cube in the second frame can really harm your athlete.

 

On another note, the feed for Taylor going out is to the American benefit. Scouting and gameplanning opponents changes winners at this level. I am aware international coaches know Taylor is good and there is no shortage of scoutable film on David. Still this performance may have put the world on notice, and it may fly under the radar.

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STOP IT, its the one thing I cant stand, and I wish was banned.

CHAMIZO iS TOO WILD IS HE SO INCONSISTENT.... he freaking wins everything.

He’s probably the most exciting wrestler in the world at the moment, but he doesn’t “win everything.” He lost to Burroughs a couple months ago... he lost to Demirtas even more recently. He lost in Rio in 2016... he’s taken other L’s along the way.

 

The idea that Chamizo is too wild is ridiculous, but it just stems from the fact that he’s beatable. There isn’t an air of “untouchability” about him like there has been for other transcendent talents in recent years like a Burroughs or Sadulaev.

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Two thoughts, both of which draw from experience:

 

In the first period, there are VERY few situations where you should challenge a sequence where you come out with the advantage in points. Nominal scoring actions should be off limits as well. (think opposite color 4s). Even if you are 100% correct, this does not guarantee the jury will see things your way. While a point for a failed challenge can be overcome, not holding the cube in the second frame can really harm your athlete.

 

On another note, the feed for Taylor going out is to the American benefit. Scouting and gameplanning opponents changes winners at this level. I am aware international coaches know Taylor is good and there is no shortage of scoutable film on David. Still this performance may have put the world on notice, and it may fly under the radar.

On your first point, 100% agree. Unless it’s an absolutely critical match-changing situation in the first period, you cannot throw the brick. Even if the wrestler thinks he 100% has the points. Truly amateurish tactics there.

 

On point 2, it doesn’t matter at this point. Taylor isn’t flying under anyone’s radar. He’s currently stolen the radar and is using it to bludgeon his opponents. It’s a 2 horse race at 86kg.

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True. Ask Varner about Taylor. He has beaten Varner at times and only because of size does Varner or Cael beat him. Taylor has past them both on skill. The only thing missing is that World title. Taylor is going to work Yazdani. His only weakness is getting caught by a big muscle freak-Yazdani is not that guy! Taylor is on the weaker side of things and I think some of the Cuban muscle freaks are the only guys who could get him.   

 

I think this tournament lends credence to the prospect that Taylor and Dake are capable of being more dominant than Jordan Burroughs at the Worlds or Olympics TODAY, but until they wrestle at that tournament where JB has tended to perform better on the highest stage it's hard to know.  It is clear that both of them have elite top skills to turn and pin high level opponents.  Taylor has pinned Yazdani for Christs sake.  Granted Yazdani has murdered World medal level opponents as well when it really counts on the big stage.  The most talented and dominant wrestlers lose at World and Olympic championships all the time (and again it's unclear we can conclude Dake and Taylor are the most skilled at their weights, both have studs to contend with).  

 

Honestly I'm not worried about Varner at all, he's dropped matches during the season for the last three years and won when it counts.  That doesn't mean I'm guaranteeing a victory against one of the best wrestlers we've ever seen in Sadulaev, but Varner will wrestle better than Yasar Dogu in October.  And he had a great final match.  

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I think this tournament lends credence to the prospect that Taylor and Dake are capable of being more dominant than Jordan Burroughs at the Worlds or Olympics TODAY, but until they wrestle at that tournament where JB has tended to perform better on the highest stage it's hard to know. It is clear that both of them have elite top skills to turn and pin high level opponents. Taylor has pinned Yazdani for Christs sake. Granted Yazdani has murdered World medal level opponents as well when it really counts on the big stage. The most talented and dominant wrestlers lose at World and Olympic championships all the time (and again it's unclear we can conclude Dake and Taylor are the most skilled at their weights, both have studs to contend with).

 

Honestly I'm not worried about Varner at all, he's dropped matches during the season for the last three years and won when it counts. That doesn't mean I'm guaranteeing a victory against one of the best wrestlers we've ever seen in Sadulaev, but Varner will wrestle better than Yasar Dogu in October. And he had a great final match.

You are really confident Varner is going to beat Snyder at trials

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Varner smells blood at 213 because of Snyder's 3-3 loss to the #2 guy in the world. He will be going back to 213 to take back his spot...haha...joking guys! Varner/Snyder could be a Monday/Schultz back and forth through 2020. I do actually think Varner goes back down though. He easily beats Gadsen and I think he has a better shot at Snyder than Gwiz or Akgul at the world level. This would be good for his new 3 year shoe deal he signed at the beginning of the year!

 

O and lets not turn this into a Varner thread-sorry:-) Taylor and Dake are wrestling better than Snyder/Burroughs. That is truth. How could anyone wrestle better than that? "If" they wins worlds like this in a couple of months then all the talk over the last 5 years will finally be really and not fantasy!

Edited by PRyan2012

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if you're trying to figure out Chamizo's corner, Coop is at the NYRTC in Ithaca, not the NYCRTC in Manhattan/Hoboken where Chamizo trains. also yeah Coop also isn't blonde, haha. 

so was it tanelli perhaps?

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I watched the Burroughs final. It looked like Chamizo should have lost because the ref hit him with a caution and one near the end of the first period, but it didn't go on the board. He should have definitely lost. That 4 point throw was a joke, Burroughs didn't expose at all. Burroughs will adjust and beat him at worlds. 

I saw this too...but just assumed he signaled something else, b/c the video being so poor I couldn't really see his hands

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STOP IT, its the one thing I cant stand, and I wish was banned.

CHAMIZO iS TOO WILD IS HE SO INCONSISTENT.... he freaking wins everything.

look how different the matches were, BTS vs here, 2 pts and a tie... yall act like he gets a tech one day and gets teched the next.

STOPPPPPPP WITH THE CHAMIZO DOESNT HAVE CONSISTENT RESULTS ARGUMENTS ITS LITERALLY RIDICULOUS!

WELL HE HAS MEDALED BUT NOT ALWAYS GOLD, SHOWS HOW WILD HE IS!!!

Go stick your head in a blender, he is always near the top, and I hate you all

what i hate is he backs up and blocks the whole match

at least he wasn't on one knee the whole time

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Because he lost a close match to the stalling Demitras at 2018 Euros when he thought he could run out the time, and he struggles with the all time great Soslan Ramonov, he is inconsistent

C'mon man.

We will see come worlds, but it's going to be close, its a literal coin-flip

wait, a staller lost to a staller?

omg whats the world coming to

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He’s probably the most exciting wrestler in the world at the moment, but he doesn’t “win everything.” He lost to Burroughs a couple months ago... he lost to Demirtas even more recently. He lost in Rio in 2016... he’s taken other L’s along the way.

 

The idea that Chamizo is too wild is ridiculous, but it just stems from the fact that he’s beatable. There isn’t an air of “untouchability” about him like there has been for other transcendent talents in recent years like a Burroughs or Sadulaev.

He isn't unbeatable and yes it is ridiculous, I guess by "wins everything" I meant he medals everywhere, hes in the semis of every major tournament he enters. Yes he lost to Asgarov at the Olympics and yes he lost to Demitras at Euros, and Burroughs at BTS, but overall he is consistently at the top and the idea that his variation in performance will be at its lowest during worlds is just random. I don't know how people are getting to that.

 

Eh well. Weight is going to be very tough in a couple. Months.

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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what i hate is he backs up and blocks the whole match

at least he wasn't on one knee the whole time

Pretty sure he hit a nasty outside single for his first TD and then an equally nasty high crotch at 8-8 ... but I guess he stalled his way to a 10-10

 

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

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Stieber being One and Done is wrong on all levels.

With seeding now part of tournaments it is time to move to a real Double Elimination format. This "if my guy wins I move forward" is dumber than melted ice cubes.

 

A double elimination format would push to True third place and others would know their placing as they wrestled more matches. Would make seeding easier with actual placing for ranking each season. Add in all the travel and each wrestler guaranteed two matches at the minimum and you help teams.

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