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#61 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 03:16 AM

When they start knocking on doors, printing their beliefs on US currency, and amending the Pledge of Allegiance to include their message, you might have a point.


Our shared currency and pledge were never amended to include a Christian message, this country was founded on Christian beliefs. Those beliefs combined with sound economic principals made this country the number 1 country for immigration in the world. In other words, the US has been and continues to be the most desireable place for peoples leaving other places.

Many or most of those other places are run by socialists. I for one am grateful our forefathers placed God on the currency and the pledge.

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#62 jchapman

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 03:52 AM

Our shared currency and pledge were never amended to include a Christian message, this country was founded on Christian beliefs. Those beliefs combined with sound economic principals made this country the number 1 country for immigration in the world. In other words, the US has been and continues to be the most desireable place for peoples leaving other places.

Many or most of those other places are run by socialists. I for one am grateful our forefathers placed God on the currency and the pledge.

Are you trolling, or just hopelessly uneducated?

 

The Pledge was amended in 1954 by Congress.  It took additional legislation in 1863 to amend the Act of Congress that governed the mottos allowed on our coins.  Paper money followed in 1957.  The constitution has exactly zero references to God.

 

"The day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus by the Supreme Being in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter. ... But we may hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with all this artificial scaffolding...."  Thomas Jefferson

 

“The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion."  John Adams


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#63 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 05:30 AM

Jchapman, you are correct on those amendments. I wrote that hurriedly and didn't have time to change it. I expected to see a post from you correcting it. Not disappointed. 

None the less, our Declaration mentions God and our creator numerous times and our nation is founded on Christian principles. Thank God. 

Funny thing is, the Pledge was first written by a socialist. Smarter people than us saw the wisdom to add the phrase "Under God".


Edited by TBar1977, 16 July 2018 - 06:24 AM.

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#64 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 05:33 AM

Btw, if you move to Cuba you won't see any reference to God on their Peso. You'll see people like Fidel Castro and Che Guevarra instead. Some refernces as to their leading the people to freedom. Some freedom they have enjoyed all these years.

I will take God and our Founding Fathers and what they created over those two socialist thugs any day.


Edited by TBar1977, 16 July 2018 - 06:25 AM.

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#65 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 05:47 AM

Also, Jefferson attended regular masses at the Anglican Church while John Adams was a Puritan. Further, I can quote both of these men and cite the quotes whereby they acknowledge God and Christianity. Adams believed the Bible to be the best book the world had ever known. He says so himself. 


Edited by TBar1977, 16 July 2018 - 06:33 AM.

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#66 npope

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 06:58 AM

Mr. Pope, your bold text entry regarding Christians is 100 percent true. Your entry about "most everybody else", if most everybody else includes Atheists, is not true at all. Atheists proselytize both directly and passively and with ever increasing fervor at that. As just one example (I could site countless more), they are running advertisements in many major city transit systems in both the US and Europe. Taking those who kill from the equation (a whole 'nother level), in many ways they are as zealous with their recruiting ideology as any other group.

 

Here is but one link for your perusal. 

 

https://www.thedaily...ruiting-machine

 

Yes indeed, some atheists engage in similar efforts, no doubt. That said, there is no "atheist manifesto" that delineates what atheist should, and should not do. Does not Christianity have a "manifesto" delineating "proper" behavior? Thus, which group would you think is more likely to display more comparable behavior and thus, more accurately described with generalities?

 

I don't have a problem with Christians (or Muslims, Jews, etc.), but their (general) practices are far more proscribed than those of atheists - who operate without similar standards of proscribed behavior.


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#67 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:13 AM

Yes indeed, some atheists engage in similar efforts, no doubt. That said, there is no "atheist manifesto" that delineates what atheist should, and should not do. Does not Christianity have a "manifesto" delineating "proper" behavior? Thus, which group would you think is more likely to display more comparable behavior and thus, more accurately described with generalities?

 

I don't have a problem with Christians (or Muslims, Jews, etc.), but their (general) practices are far more proscribed than those of atheists - who operate without similar standards of proscribed behavior.

 

 

I would agree that the Christian Faith calls on its following to go out and preach the word. A fundamental principal being that a community of Christian followers would be good for the community and good for its people. Atheists are more fractured in this regard. Some atheists can and do adhere to a "live and let live" way of life. They can be content to just "not believe" and allow others their belief in God. 

 

Most atheists, and no I can't quantify but still believe most, can't nor won't shy away from confrontation, agitation and activism for what they believe in. David Silverman and Richard Dawkins come to mind. I need not reference anything other than the home page of Mr. Silverman's American Atheist Organization where the headline reads "We Are  Monitoring Your State Legislature" alongside an image of red dots pockmarking the landscape. The first two drop down menus on that site are for their "Legal Center" and for "Activism." Hardly a "live and let live" point of view. 

 

Funny that above you combine Atheist and Manifesto, two words that conjure up Karl Marx and his followers. I know that is not exactly what you meant, but it still brings up that image for me and I find it somewhat useful here. Marx was a lifelong atheist/humanist who placed "man" at the very summit of the cosmos. One of his most prodigious followers, Lenin, wrote that "atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, and of the theory and practice of scientific socialism." He basically shut down the churches and murdered many priests. 

 

One can only wonder if Lenin would have any regrets had he lived long enough to find out just how destructive his Soviet experiment would become. Starvation, lack of resources, and death were their constant companion in Soviet Union. Their GDP one fifth that of ours in their best years, and far, far less than that today. In 2016 our GDP was 19.3T. Russia not one fifth nor even one tenth that. This is all despite that fact that when Lenin took over Russia they had far more people than the US (the exact opposite of today since anyone in their right mind would rather be here than there) and far more land and natural resources.

 

How could this be if their "science" and "humanist" beliefs are so superior? Perhaps what they espouse works better in theory than in true practice. 


Edited by TBar1977, 16 July 2018 - 08:24 AM.

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#68 MSU158

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:16 AM

Yes indeed, some atheists engage in similar efforts, no doubt. That said, there is no "atheist manifesto" that delineates what atheist should, and should not do. Does not Christianity have a "manifesto" delineating "proper" behavior? Thus, which group would you think is more likely to display more comparable behavior and thus, more accurately described with generalities?

 

I don't have a problem with Christians (or Muslims, Jews, etc.), but their (general) practices are far more proscribed than those of atheists - who operate without similar standards of proscribed behavior.

I am pretty sure reasonable good living and governmental laws mostly coincide with any Christian "manifesto":

 

1.I am the Lord thy God....................Obviously not governmental or required to be a decent person.

2.Honor the name of God..................See above

3.Keep Sabbath Holy.........................See above

4.Honor Parents.................................Pretty fricking straight forward

5.Don't Kill..........................................I hope this requires no additional input

6.Adultery...........................................Again straight forward-The fornication sub-part can be rightfully debated

7.Don't Steal......................................See 5

8.False Witness to Neighbor.............Depending on what you do, can be legal ramifications and, if not, many levels of douchebaggery.

9.Covet other Wives..........................Grey area depending on how you actually act toward them, but, again, many levels of douchebagger may apply.

10. Covet other goods.......................See 9.

 

 

With the exception of the 1st 3, the last 7 are a pretty STRONG guideline on how to be a basic, decent person.......



#69 steamboat_charlie

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:19 AM

This is all despite that fact that when Lenin took over Russia they had far more people than the US (the exact opposite of today since anyone in their right mind would rather be here than there) and far more land and natural resources.

 

 

Maybe he was on to something.  We could do with a few less people here.  Specifically, if we could get rid of people that debate religion on wrestling forums, that'd be a great start.  


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#70 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:21 AM

I am pretty sure reasonable good living and governmental laws mostly coincide with any Christian "manifesto":

 

1.I am the Lord thy God....................Obviously not governmental or required to be a decent person.

2.Honor the name of God..................See above

3.Keep Sabbath Holy.........................See above

4.Honor Parents.................................Pretty fricking straight forward

5.Don't Kill..........................................I hope this requires no additional input

6.Adultery...........................................Again straight forward-The fornication sub-part can be rightfully debated

7.Don't Steal......................................See 5

8.False Witness to Neighbor.............Depending on what you do, can be legal ramifications and, if not, many levels of douchebaggery.

9.Covet other Wives..........................Grey area depending on how you actually act toward them, but, again, many levels of douchebagger may apply.

10. Covet other goods.......................See 9.

 

 

With the exception of the 1st 3, the last 7 are a pretty STRONG guideline on how to be a basic, decent person.......

 

 

Nice post. I like it.

 

Most of the recorded history of mankind thru Europe and America involves and intertwining of the Bible, Ecclesiastical Law, Roman Law (as chronicled during the time of Emperor Justinian, and ultimately English Common Law which became the Law of the Land in the good old US of A upon our nation's beginnings. 


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#71 TBar1977

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:22 AM

Maybe he was on to something.  We could do with a few less people here.  Specifically, if we could get rid of people that debate religion on wrestling forums, that'd be a great start.  

 

 

Hey, I'm all for that too. But when others bring the subject up, I am not shy. I did not bring it up, I just chimed in. 


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#72 jchapman

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Posted 16 July 2018 - 08:41 AM

I would agree that the Christian Faith calls on its following to go out and preach the word. A fundamental principal being that a community of Christian followers would be good for the community and good for its people. Atheists are more fractured in this regard. Some atheists can and do adhere to a "live and let live" way of life. They can be content to just "not believe" and allow others their belief in God.

Most atheists, and no I can't quantify but still believe most, can't nor won't shy away from confrontation, agitation and activism for what they believe in. David Silverman and Richard Dawkins come to mind. I need not reference anything other than the home page of Mr. Silverman's American Atheist Organization where the headline reads "We Are Monitoring Your State Legislature" alongside an image of red dots pockmarking the landscape. The first two drop down menus on that site are for their "Legal Center" and for "Activism." Hardly a "live and let live" point of view.

Funny that above you combine Atheist and Manifesto, two words that conjure up Karl Marx and his followers. I know that is not exactly what you meant, but it still brings up that image for me and I find it somewhat useful here. Marx was a lifelong atheist/humanist who placed "man" at the very summit of the cosmos. One of his most prodigious followers, Lenin, wrote that "atheism is a natural and inseparable part of Marxism, and of the theory and practice of scientific socialism." He basically shut down the churches and murdered many priests.

One can only wonder if Lenin would have any regrets had he lived long enough to find out just how destructive his Soviet experiment would become. Starvation, lack of resources, and death were their constant companion in Soviet Union. Their GDP one fifth that of ours in their best years, and far, far less than that today. In 2016 our GDP was 19.3T. Russia not one fifth nor even one tenth that. This is all despite that fact that when Lenin took over Russia they had far more people than the US (the exact opposite of today since anyone in their right mind would rather be here than there) and far more land and natural resources.

How could this be if their "science" and "humanist" beliefs are so superior? Perhaps what they espouse works better in theory than in true practice.

The latest Pew research poll found 9% of Americans flat out do not believe in god. That’s not counting the “don’t know”, etc. so there are over 29 million atheists in the USA, and you think most of them are confrontational? Where are the millions and millions of confrontational atheists?

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