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Alleged Ohio State Disabato video

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3 hours ago, Martini said:

Russ quote below from link above. Thanks 103244! So my question to Jordan is why did you not say Russ handled it and that was that? Of course that also does not look good, but it may be what happened.

"Certainly all my administrators recognized it was an issue for me,” Hellickson says in the footage. “I’m sure that I talked to them on numerous occasions about my discontent with the environment. I know I had a lot of conversations with Fred Beekman about it. But nothing ever changed.”

I agree, although I assume he feared the phrase that doomed Paterno - “should have done more.”

I don’t doubt that it’s possible people could try to force him out if it’s proven he had any knowledge.  I mean the Astros fired their assistant GM in the middle of the World Series for saying “thank f’ing god we got [a player that committed domestic violence]” (meanwhile of course the player was still on the team).

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5 hours ago, tbert said:

NPope, you are a little loose with at least one of your facts..."ANYTHING".  He is in fact on record as hearing  locker room talk, but that is different or something along those line.

I do appreciate the effort of a civil discussion from your far left perpective.

 

Sorry Tbert - not loose at all. Please see this video clip with his actual statement - it comes right at the outset.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/07/rep_jim_jordan_denies_knowledge_of_osu_sexual_abuse_in_special_report_interview_completely_false.html

That's been out there for five months now. Per my original comment on the matter, why do you have to frame the conversation as a conservative vs. liberal perspective? Can't I simply be presenting the facts? While you claim that others like me, have the bias, I think you need to look a little closer to home for that.

Edited by npope

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5 hours ago, npope said:

If this discussion could get rid of the extreme ideologists on either side then maybe there could be a civil and clear discussion on the matter. I know some people zero in on Jordan's (and others') behavior at that time - arguing they should have done more (or at least something). Personally, I can forgive those (like Hellickson and Jordan) for their lack of significant action at the time - it was after all, a different time with different expectations. Fast forward to the current day, Jordan goes into complete denial as to whether he ever heard ANYTHING about the training room events - while some extreme right wing posters on here try to fashion a defense for those denials, that is simply wrong; lies are being spewed. I agree with Denger (and others above) that if Jordan simply would have owned it to begin with and acknowledged that he made a mistake at that time and that his bosses similarly missed the boat on the problem then this would have been last year's news already. Yes, some deep red poster will now jump up and say that the liberals would not have left Jordan alone on the point, and who really knows - but it would seem pretty small potatoes compared to all of the other garbage being spewn about - some many better stories to go after if you want to make somebody look bad politically. I am sure that behind closed doors Jordan is telling his inner circle "Geeezzz, I should have just owned up to it at the start and this would all have been long gone by now."

And this is coming from a former UW wrestler - Hellickson was my coach; the Jordans came through a few years later, but they left a great footprint on the Wisconsin scene. I still love them for what they did here as wrestlers. But geeeez, quit trying to make excuses for Jim's political miscalculation on this issue. 

Hellickson said he talked to higher ups. Nothing happened. I think back then they didn't have a line in the sand for guys like Strauss. Probably everyone knew it was creepy as all get out, but bringing it up didn't solve the issue so it just ended up being dropped. 

I don't know where or how they find these people, but that ref who alledges to have told Jordan, why would he think that if that was something reportable that Jordan was the guy to report it to? Why not go to the head of the Athletic Dept.? Maybe the President of the School? Maybe the State police? 

Maybe he too thought it was creepy, but not sexual abuse that would get the guy fired. Hellickson tried to report higher up and look what happened, nothing. 

Edited by TBar1977

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1 minute ago, TBar1977 said:

Hellickson said he talked to higher ups. Nothing happened. I think back then they didn't have a line in the sand for guys like Strauss. Probably everyone knew it was creepy as all get out, but bringing it up didn't solve the issue so it just ended up being dropped. 

I agree that Hellickson passing the message up the chain removes culpability from him, but in retrospect it obviously wasn’t enough. This really reflects poorly mainly on the Ohio state administration at the time.

For Jordan, the issue is that he presently denied having known anything. It seems clear he knew what was going on (as everyone seemed to know), but was powerless to do anything due to being an assistant coach. His denial of any knowledge whatsoever is reprehensible as it removes credibility from the victims. 

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32 minutes ago, npope said:

Sorry Tbert - not loose at all. Please see this video clip on his statement (https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/07/rep_jim_jordan_denies_knowledge_of_osu_sexual_abuse_in_special_report_interview_completely_false.html).

That's been out there for five months now. Per my original comment on the matter, why do you have to frame the conversation as a conservative vs. liberal? Can't I simply be presenting the facts? While you claim everyone else has the bias, I think you need to look a little closer to home for that.

The “conversations in a locker room are a lot different than allegations of abuse” is definitely a bit of politician wordsmithing.  Not denying it, but also not necessarily “admitting” anything.  

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9 minutes ago, 1032004 said:

The “conversations in a locker room are a lot different than allegations of abuse” is definitely a bit of politician wordsmithing.  Not denying it, but also not necessarily “admitting” anything.  

It could be wordsmithing, or believe it or not, it could be the truth.

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I get the impression that some in the news media doesn't give a crap about Strauss and his sexual proclivities, they only care about that low level asst wrestling coach who heard who knows what, if anything. This is all about that guy. 

I will give the WAPO some degree of credit for writing one recent article that does not mention Jordan, but just focuses on Strauss and his alleged crimes. They typically can't resist, so props for one time doing so. 

Edited by TBar1977

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46 minutes ago, npope said:

Sorry Tbert - not loose at all. Please see this video clip with his actual statement - it comes right at the outset.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/07/07/rep_jim_jordan_denies_knowledge_of_osu_sexual_abuse_in_special_report_interview_completely_false.html

That's been out there for five months now. Per my original comment on the matter, why do you have to frame the conversation as a conservative vs. liberal perspective? Can't I simply be presenting the facts? While you claim that others like me, have the bias, I think you need to look a little closer to home for that.

I frame it as conservative vs liberal because that is exactly what it elevated to shortly after being publicly announced. 100% Political.   

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, tbert said:

I frame it as conservative vs liberal because that is exactly what it elevated to shortly after being publicly announced. 100% Political.   

 

 

 

And so that must mean I am a liberal? I just presented the facts (with which you evidently were not familiar ) and you label me a liberal. I am not arguing that virtually all of this is political - it is - I agree! That doesn't change the fact as to what Jordan said. You are are attempting to shift your argument now. Why don't you just say "I didn't see that clip and I don't know everything - my bad...and I still don't like liberals." You'd feel better if you could get that off your chest ; ) and your arguments would have a lot more credibility instead of just this steadfast insistence that the liberals are evil and the conservatives are being abused.

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18 minutes ago, tbert said:

I frame it as conservative vs liberal because that is exactly what it elevated to shortly after being publicly announced. 100% Political.   

 

 

 

So the fact that he lied is not relevant to you? No matter what its purley partisan?

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23 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I get the impression that some in the news media doesn't give a crap about Strauss and his sexual proclivities, they only care about that low level asst wrestling coach who heard who knows what, if anything. This is all about that guy. 

I will give the WAPO some degree of credit for writing one recent article that does not mention Jordan, but just focuses on Strauss and his alleged crimes. They typically can't resist, so props for one time doing so. 

2 seperare stories. One is about the pervert doctor. The other is about the senator who lied about knowing. Just because an outlet reports on one doesnt mean they dont care about the other.

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48 minutes ago, TBar1977 said:

I get the impression that some in the news media doesn't give a crap about Strauss and his sexual proclivities, they only care about that low level asst wrestling coach who heard who knows what, if anything. This is all about that guy. 

I will give the WAPO some degree of credit for writing one recent article that does not mention Jordan, but just focuses on Strauss and his alleged crimes. They typically can't resist, so props for one time doing so. 

It must be tough to want to condemn Ohio State but also absolve Jordan. There’s not some big conspiracy against Jordan-he’s the most notable person involved in this story and his statements of denial since the scandal broke are more incriminating than his actions at the time. 

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19 minutes ago, Billyhoyle said:

It must be tough to want to condemn Ohio State but also absolve Jordan. There’s not some big conspiracy against Jordan-he’s the most notable person involved in this story and his statements of denial since the scandal broke are more incriminating than his actions at the time. 

No. He was a nobody back then. The media and political operatives like Perkins Coie want to muddling, but this isn't at all about him.

Btw, many articles claim Clinton and Obama's campaign funneled money to Fusion GPS thru Perkins Coie. They are political to their core. 

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1 hour ago, tbert said:

It could be wordsmithing, or believe it or not, it could be the truth.

What’s the truth though?  That statement isn’t really saying anything.  

For the record, I agree that that’s as close as he’s come to admitting knowledge of anything, but I’m sure he’d argue that he didn’t admit to anything there.   Literally you and npope are using the same statement and claiming it proves both of your arguments.

Edited by 1032004

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3 hours ago, tbert said:

I frame it as conservative vs liberal because that is exactly what it elevated to shortly after being publicly announced. 100% Political.   

 

 

 

If it's 100% political, I guess that makes the liberals the party that's against perverts.

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8 hours ago, 1032004 said:

Literally you and npope are using the same statement and claiming it proves both of your arguments.

My only "argument" here is that Jordan said what he said - "I never heard anything about anything" (contrary to the denials of some).  Condemn the content of Jordan's statement as a lie or not, that is what he said. On the slightly less objective side, I cannot see how an assistant coach in that tOSU setting so many years ago could not possibly have not known of the training room activities and thus, I conclude that Jordan is lying at this point - that is an assumption on my part. While some may, I do not judge him for his actions (or inaction) some 30 odd years ago - different time, he wasn't the "man in charge," etc. 

So, Jordan said what he said and I think it was a lie of convenience (my opinion) that didn't need to be wasted on a 30 year-old incident. People should feel free to disagree with that position, but don't tell me something didn't happen that I saw with my own eyes.

Edited by npope

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9 hours ago, 1032004 said:

What’s the truth though?  That statement isn’t really saying anything.  

For the record, I agree that that’s as close as he’s come to admitting knowledge of anything, but I’m sure he’d argue that he didn’t admit to anything there.   Literally you and npope are using the same statement and claiming it proves both of your arguments.

I can absolutely agree with that we arr using same video to support our stance.  Disabato clearly says it was brought up as Locker room banter .   Jordan says locker room talk  is different than someone reporting abuse.  I also agree with that.  Npope choses to ignore that statement and picks a clip that supports his slant.

So yes we look at the same issue in different ways.  My point with this is he said Jordan denies knowing "ANYTHING" which is clearly false by the  using same video that he uses to condemn him. 

What is the truth?   Back to square one.   Largely depends on your political slant.

Im a fiscal con, social mod. 

 

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8 hours ago, Fletcher said:

If it's 100% political, I guess that makes the liberals the party that's against perverts.

 I guess you are defending an arguement that they created pervs?

I dont look at liberals as a.party,  just a largely irrational way of thinking (my opinion)

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7 minutes ago, tbert said:

So yes we look at the same issue in different ways.  My point with this is he said Jordan denies knowing "ANYTHING" which is clearly false by the  using same video that he uses to condemn him. 

 

Where is that head slap emoji when I need it?

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12 minutes ago, tbert said:

I can absolutely agree with that we arr using same video to support our stance.  Disabato clearly says it was brought up as Locker room banter .   Jordan says locker room talk  is different than someone reporting abuse.  I also agree with that.  Npope choses to ignore that statement and picks a clip that supports his slant.

So yes we look at the same issue in different ways.  My point with this is he said Jordan denies knowing "ANYTHING" which is clearly false by the  using same video that he uses to condemn him. 

What is the truth?   Back to square one.   Largely depends on your political slant.

Im a fiscal con, social mod. 

 

Fair enough, I guess part of my point was I don’t think it’s “clearly false”.  Probably false, yes.  I’m not really political at all (if anything maybe lean just slightly to the right), but too bad that interview was on Fox News, otherwise we probably would’ve  gotten the obvious follow-up question of “so you did hear the locker room talk about Strauss?”

Edited by 1032004

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8 minutes ago, tbert said:

Lok and yet you deny liberal bias

Your bleating of "liberal bias" is a disgraceful ad hominem attack to deflect from the facts.

I'm guessing you don't think that "asking" for a favor but not getting it is just like not actually asking for the favor, too.

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