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hammerlockthree

Does the US even want Seeds?

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I didn't see very many first and matches from Dagu or many of the tournaments this year, but am I off in assuming the US should have a huge advantage in given the two hour weigh in? Even given our guys who are cutting more weight, you'd think we'd still have huge advantage based on experience. Is there any weight we wouldn't want to catch the best guy off the scale?

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I didn't see very many first and matches from Dagu or many of the tournaments this year, but am I off in assuming the US should have a huge advantage in given the two hour weigh in? Even given our guys who are cutting more weight, you'd think we'd still have huge advantage based on experience. Is there any weight we wouldn't want to catch the best guy off the scale?

The obvious answer is JB, as he is big for the weight, Chamizo is small and JB is a slow starter....

 

No matter the weight Logie needs a couple matches to round into form. Dake/Taylor seemingly only have one guy who we expect to challenge, I would like them to be separated but don't think it gives us a lesser chance by meeting early, same with Snyder.... J'den is J'den, I was going to say he is a slow starter but he is just a slow wrestler..... I think James G needs some time after weigh-ins, yeah, as I type this I am realizing on the whole, outside of Dake/Taylor/Snyder/Gwiz, I wouldnt be thrilled with our chances vs a hammer early.

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So you think our guys having decades of experience with this situation doesn't factor in at all.....

 

I really disagree on Logie, his only prayer of knocking off a top guy at that weight seems to be catching them off the scale.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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So you think our guys having decades of experience with this situation doesn't factor in at all.....

?

Are you specifically referring to JB? is his international career even a decade long?

If so yes. I think that Chamizo has a definite advantage over JB if they meet in round 1.

And with the others, Logie, Gilman, James G, J'den, Nashon..... Im not sure where you are getting Decades, but yes I would think it would be advantageous to avoid the best guys in round 1

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Seeds aren't in the interest of spreading the medals around, so I don't know that anyone really is going to do all that.  I do like the idea of separating the ultra elite onto different sides.    

 

I think Burroughs gets Chamizo this next time around no matter what round he sees him in.   

 

Snyder is probably unbeatable against anyone other than the guy who just beat him and Sadulaev.

 

Dake and Taylor will probably be hitting on all cylinders after round 1.   Nerves are likely to play a roll early given their lack of experience at the world championships.  But once they break the ice and get going, I don't believe the round will matter in terms of putting out their best effort.   

 

Guys like Cox, Gilman Green, Stieber, Garrett, they need every break they can get.     

 

Gwiz 

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?

Are you specifically referring to JB? is his international career even a decade long?

If so yes. I think that Chamizo has a definite advantage over JB if they meet in round 1.

And with the others, Logie, Gilman, James G, J'den, Nashon..... Im not sure where you are getting Decades, but yes I would think it would be advantageous to avoid the best guys in round 1

 

because they have been doing 2 hour weigh ins for 20 years.

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Ok so stop beating around the bush...you think a day before weigh in and a 2 hour weigh in are the same thing.

Not at all, I specifically listed the wrestlers I thought would have issues, and the ones I thought it did not bother.

 

I think JB is big for the weight and it would suit him better to meet Chamizo later on.

I also think some other guys would benefit from catching a break and not getting a hammer off the bat.

 

for Dake/Taylor/Snyder/Gwiz, I don't think it matters...

 

Is your argument, "It doesnt matter for any of our guys" ?

I'm confused

Edited by spladle08

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No, sorry I overstepped. 

 

i am saying that our guys having decades of experience with a 2 hour weigh in is a huge advantage. Making weight is a skill like anything else. I think our guys previous experience will be anywhere from a significant to a huge advantage. You seem to sum it up as if everyone in the tournament is going to be on equal footing in this regard. 

Edited by hammerlockthree

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I got ya... here is maybe a  more detailed response

Dake/DT seem to have 1 challenger each, neither of their challengers seem to be huge for the weight (Nor are Dake/Taylor), so I dont think it will matter when they meet

Snyder is clutch, Sadulaev is coming up in weight so again I don't think it matters when they meet.

Gwiz is at heavy, weighins dont tend to matter.
 
JamesG/Logie have shown fatigue early as if weight cuts truly bother them and as they both aren't in the best of form, I would like to avoid hammers

Gillman is gigantic for the weight, but I can't say I have noticed a decline in performance relative to the cut... so who knows.

Nashon, just doesnt have much of a chance.

..... JB is a slow starter and needs a couple warm up matches

 

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The idea in the OP is correct to say: for our weaker wrestlers in this lineup our best shot at an upset may be in the first match against an opponent who mismanaged his weight. It is a fair assumption that Americans will have an advantage in this regard having grown up wrestling under weigh in procedures similar to the current UWW procedures.

 

Unfortunately, this premise is flawed because of the current backdraw system. For our weaker wrestlers, the best shot at a medal is not a significant upset in the first round, but rather a loss along the way against an opponent who will assuredly make the final.

 

Worse yet, our two most accomplished guys have primary adversaries who are up a weight from the day-before weigh in system, negating any advantage we could expect immediately off the scale.

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The idea in the OP is correct to say: for our weaker wrestlers in this lineup our best shot at an upset may be in the first match against an opponent who mismanaged his weight. It is a fair assumption that Americans will have an advantage in this regard having grown up wrestling under weigh in procedures similar to the current UWW procedures.

Unfortunately, this premise is flawed because of the current backdraw system. For our weaker wrestlers, the best shot at a medal is not a significant upset in the first round, but rather a loss along the way against an opponent who will assuredly make the final.

Worse yet, our two most accomplished guys have primary adversaries who are up a weight from the day-before weigh in system, negating any advantage we could expect immediately off the scale.

I like this guy

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In addition to UWW seeds, as a fan would love to see these wrestlers in opposite brackets to set up the possible blockbuster World finals:

 

74 JB - Chamizo

 

79 Gadzhimagomedov - Dake

 

86 Yazdani - Taylor

 

97 Snyder - Sadulaev

 

125 Taha - Geno

 

+1.  I also think 70kg is one of the most interesting weights this year.  It's just that the best match probably takes place at Russian Nationals.  

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So you think our guys having decades of experience with this situation doesn't factor in at all.....

 

I really disagree on Logie, his only prayer of knocking off a top guy at that weight seems to be catching them off the scale.

Really? Logie knocked off the euro champ number 1 ranked guy in the world at the World Cup. That was with a weight allowance and vs a guy who was coming up from 61kg himself.

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Yeah you got a point, to be honest I haven't watched him that closely, I just always thought he didn't belong at 65 kilos....but I guess its wash anyway.

 

He does belong at 65kg... he just never belonged at 61kg IMO, at least not long-term.  When he first made the cut he still had a lot of his power, but he was killing himself to stay down there and went like 2 years without doing any weight training. Last year Rashidov threw him around with ease.  

 

It was probably worth it... even though it was non-Olympic weight a gold medal is still an enormous achievement.  That said, I think if he'd never moved down, and changed his body in doing so, he'd be more competitive right now at 65kg (i.e. a legit top 5 guy).  He still has an shot at a medal... he gives some guys fits, and if it's going to be a shootout he can put up points with anyone in the world, but there are just too many guys in the bracket that have a solid chance of beating him.  

 

Honestly, Stieber's best path to a medal might be losing to someone like Bekbulatov early, and running into Aliyev or Takatani... something like that, in the repechage.  

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Logan beat Romanov and has some other big wins for sure. He justs needs to wrestle like the Logie bear we saw those time as well as the clutch ability he showed throughout his NCAA career at NCAA's.  I'm never giving up on that cat. I mean bear.  

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Logan beat Romanov and has some other big wins for sure. He justs needs to wrestle like the Logie bear we saw those time as well as the clutch ability he showed throughout his NCAA career at NCAA's.  I'm never giving up on that cat. I mean bear.  

Personally, I'd love to see him get one more world level medal and hang em up while he's on top.  

 

Of course, he's welcome to win Olympic Gold too if he chooses to continue.  I just think he's a bit tired.  He's been going hard for a long time.

Edited by silver-medal

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